Roadside Memorials, Utah fight

11-24-2007, 03:27 AM

I applaud and support any community that outlaws roadside memorials for ANY reason.
They are pollution.
WTF?!
Ever heard of a cemetery?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311956,00.html
I wonder what they would do if a Buddhist or Jewish officer died.
It is a blatant breech of the separation of church and state, the funds, the land they are on, the police seal on the crosses, all of it... and 12' fucking feet tall. Give me a break.
But, all of that is secondary to me... it is just not the place, get a plot and stop littering the highways and byways of our nation with your "grief". It is just litter no matter why you put it there.
Many cities and counties are outlawing it and imposing fines on those erecting these memorials and I applaud them!

Ibby · 11-24-2007, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

PC is a joke.
If you are not offending someone today you aren't saying anything worth hearing.

Aliantha · 11-24-2007, 04:54 AM

There are plenty of people here who put up crosses and leave flowers by them regularly for roadside deaths.

I know these roadside crosses have made me rethink the speed I'm doing on many occasions.

I really don't think there's a problem. If the council (local government) thinks they're out of line, they have the right to remove them.

ZenGum · 11-24-2007, 05:25 AM

Ibram ... Ka-ZING!

I'm with Ali regarding the use of memorials as warning signs. In some southern parts of Australia the road authorities put up posts with pictures of tombstones - not crosses - at the site of fatal crashes. Other places use smallish white crosses (2 or 3 feet high). Over time these become useful road hazard warnings. Somebody died right here!.

But a 12-foot high cross? seems a tad excessive.

11-24-2007, 05:33 AM

The separation of church and state has nothing to do with PC or offending anyone.
But I do not expect Ibram to be able to understand that... it requires thought.

ZenGum · 11-24-2007, 05:55 AM

It seemed appropriate in relation to your mention of Buddhist or Jewish officers.

I want to know what they'll put up for an atheist. A 12 foot high ... nothing?

Sundae · 11-24-2007, 06:01 AM

I'm interested in the idea that a memorial for a policeman shot and killed during a traffic stop in 1978 would remind speeding drivers to slow down [quotes from attached article]. Surely they would just remind people not to shoot and kill policemen?

I have to say I hate the tattered remains of flowers and faded notes tied to lamp-posts here. As I don't drive at the moment (and have never knowingly broken the speed limit) it didn't occur to me that it might slow other people down. Perhaps it's worth it then - I'd prefer then to keep their grief private though.

Aliantha · 11-24-2007, 06:17 AM

In Oz there have been increasing numbers of people killed on the roads. Particularly young people. To me, a few flowers and a few faded notes are a small price to pay even if it saves just one young life. My sensibilities are slightly offended when I see these tributes too, but what do they matter compared to a life?

I used to think they were just 'litter', but there were a couple of events in my life which changed my perspective.

It's a shame these things had to happen for me to value the grief which produced these tributes. My only hope is that others might be wiser than I.

Sundae · 11-24-2007, 06:22 AM

My issue is that I don't think they affect those that cause the accidents in the first place. The majority of "roadside memorials" I've seen that I know anything about (ie read about the accident in the local paper or knew someone who knew the victim) involve young people driving fast or intoxicated*. Usually killing or injuring their friends and/ or oncoming traffic.

These people are already breaking laws and advice given by older, wiser heads. Seems like the flowers only speak to those of us sensible enough to value life.

*Please note I am only talking about those that I have knowledge of, and not suggesting that this applies in all cases.

Ibby · 11-24-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

The separation of church and state has nothing to do with PC or offending anyone.
But I do not expect Ibram to be able to understand that... it requires thought.

Well isn't that mature...

LJ · 11-24-2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

The Utah Highway Patrol Association defends the crosses, which have the Highway Patrol logo on them and have been erected on government land. It says they are secular symbols that both honor the troopers and remind speeding drivers to slow down.

this goes a bit beyond a quiet little roadside shrine like we see around here. the lies about the crosses being secular symbols because they have police insignia adorning them underlies the hypocrisy so common to religious doctrine, as well.

If the families have paid for the crosses, then fine....if the state has? not so much, i think. is the cross the only symbol they could have used? were any of the officers represented non christian?

richlevy · 11-24-2007, 12:32 PM

As long as they would be willing to put up a 6 foot Star of David for a Jewish officer, then I say go ahead. IMO, this is very similar to the memorials in Arlington or any national cemetery. Yes it's a public road but national cemeteries are also public.

Now once they attempt to put up a cross or refuse to erect an appropriate symbol for a fallen Buddhist or Jewish trooper, I will be the first in line to cry foul.

The 'secular symbol' idea is bull***t though, for the reasons stated above.

Cloud · 11-24-2007, 12:43 PM

you having a baby backasswards, rk?

It's "breach"!

Bullitt · 11-24-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

The separation of church and state has nothing to do with PC or offending anyone.
But I do not expect Ibram to be able to understand that... it requires thought.

Cloud · 11-24-2007, 01:42 PM

crosses are secular symbols? Of what, barbaric execution methods?

11-24-2007, 03:27 AM	#1
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Roadside Memorials, Utah fight I applaud and support any community that outlaws roadside memorials for ANY reason. They are pollution. WTF?! Ever heard of a cemetery? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311956,00.html I wonder what they would do if a Buddhist or Jewish officer died. It is a blatant breech of the separation of church and state, the funds, the land they are on, the police seal on the crosses, all of it... and 12' fucking feet tall. Give me a break. But, all of that is secondary to me... it is just not the place, get a plot and stop littering the highways and byways of our nation with your "grief". It is just litter no matter why you put it there. Many cities and counties are outlawing it and imposing fines on those erecting these memorials and I applaud them!

11-24-2007, 04:54 AM	#3
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	There are plenty of people here who put up crosses and leave flowers by them regularly for roadside deaths. I know these roadside crosses have made me rethink the speed I'm doing on many occasions. I really don't think there's a problem. If the council (local government) thinks they're out of line, they have the right to remove them. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-24-2007, 05:25 AM	#4
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Ibram ... Ka-ZING! I'm with Ali regarding the use of memorials as warning signs. In some southern parts of Australia the road authorities put up posts with pictures of tombstones - not crosses - at the site of fatal crashes. Other places use smallish white crosses (2 or 3 feet high). Over time these become useful road hazard warnings. Somebody died right here!. But a 12-foot high cross? seems a tad excessive. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

11-24-2007, 05:55 AM	#6
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	It seemed appropriate in relation to your mention of Buddhist or Jewish officers. I want to know what they'll put up for an atheist. A 12 foot high ... nothing? __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

11-24-2007, 06:01 AM	#7
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	I'm interested in the idea that a memorial for a policeman shot and killed during a traffic stop in 1978 would remind speeding drivers to slow down [quotes from attached article]. Surely they would just remind people not to shoot and kill policemen? I have to say I hate the tattered remains of flowers and faded notes tied to lamp-posts here. As I don't drive at the moment (and have never knowingly broken the speed limit) it didn't occur to me that it might slow other people down. Perhaps it's worth it then - I'd prefer then to keep their grief private though. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

11-24-2007, 05:33 AM	#5
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	The separation of church and state has nothing to do with PC or offending anyone. But I do not expect Ibram to be able to understand that... it requires thought.

11-24-2007, 06:17 AM	#8
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	In Oz there have been increasing numbers of people killed on the roads. Particularly young people. To me, a few flowers and a few faded notes are a small price to pay even if it saves just one young life. My sensibilities are slightly offended when I see these tributes too, but what do they matter compared to a life? I used to think they were just 'litter', but there were a couple of events in my life which changed my perspective. It's a shame these things had to happen for me to value the grief which produced these tributes. My only hope is that others might be wiser than I. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-24-2007, 06:22 AM	#9
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	My issue is that I don't think they affect those that cause the accidents in the first place. The majority of "roadside memorials" I've seen that I know anything about (ie read about the accident in the local paper or knew someone who knew the victim) involve young people driving fast or intoxicated. Usually killing or injuring their friends and/ or oncoming traffic. These people are already breaking laws and advice given by older, wiser heads. Seems like the flowers only speak to those of us sensible enough to value life. Please note I am only talking about those that I have knowledge of, and not suggesting that this applies in all cases. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

11-24-2007, 12:32 PM	#12
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	As long as they would be willing to put up a 6 foot Star of David for a Jewish officer, then I say go ahead. IMO, this is very similar to the memorials in Arlington or any national cemetery. Yes it's a public road but national cemeteries are also public. Now once they attempt to put up a cross or refuse to erect an appropriate symbol for a fallen Buddhist or Jewish trooper, I will be the first in line to cry foul. The 'secular symbol' idea is bull*t though, for the reasons stated above. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama**

11-24-2007, 12:43 PM	#13
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	you having a baby backasswards, rk? It's "breach"! __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

11-24-2007, 01:42 PM	#15
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	crosses are secular symbols? Of what, barbaric execution methods? __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

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