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-   -   RIP, famous person (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=24383)

monster 08-11-2014 09:10 PM

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH heard it in a passing reference as I was flicking radio stations driving home from NJ a few hours ago. currently in motel made sure it had WiFi so I could find out what happened. My favorite comedian Evah, had hoped to get a chance to see him live. :cry:

infinite monkey 08-11-2014 09:27 PM

I remember you saying Good Morning Vietnam is one of your favorite movies. I like that one too.

I'm a bit partial to many of his movies, and stand ups, and shows, but most of all The World According to Garp.

Here's something funny for those who care...gotta watch it through, it's so Robin Williams. I'm glad I found it.

Love ya monster!


monster 08-11-2014 09:37 PM

I'm heartbroken, tbh :(

O CAPTAIN! my Captain! our fearful trip is done;
The ship has weather’d every rack, the prize we sought is won;
The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring:
But O heart! heart! heart!
O the bleeding drops of red,
Where on the deck my Captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead.


O Captain! my Captain! rise up and hear the bells;
Rise up—for you the flag is flung—for you the bugle trills;
For you bouquets and ribbon’d wreaths—for you the shores a-crowding;
For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;
Here Captain! dear father!
This arm beneath your head;
It is some dream that on the deck,
You’ve fallen cold and dead.


My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still;
My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will;
The ship is anchor’d safe and sound, its voyage closed and done;
From fearful trip, the victor ship, comes in with object won; 20
Exult, O shores, and ring, O bells!
But I, with mournful tread,
Walk the deck my Captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead.

monster 08-11-2014 09:39 PM

All RW youtube clips are telling me to try again later. I didn't realize it was so recent -I though it was something I'd missed because I've had not interwebs and barely any radio for a few days

infinite monkey 08-11-2014 09:40 PM

If I had a desk I would stand on top of it right now!

I'm heartbroken too. It don't make no sense.

monster 08-11-2014 09:50 PM

don't think I've ever cried for a celeb before

infinite monkey 08-11-2014 10:04 PM

But I get it. It's a pretty tough one to take.

*hugz*

Here's Garp (I'm a big Irving fan as well)


DanaC 08-12-2014 01:51 AM

Ah man. That makes me want to cry.

henry quirk 08-12-2014 09:13 AM

'The World According to Garp' (film and, at one time, book) is a favorite of mine.

It always seemed/seems to be forgotten movie, never mentioned.

Certainly, I never heard Williams mention it, but then: he was always makin' with the funnies so...

infinite monkey 08-12-2014 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry quirk (Post 906926)
'The World According to Garp' (film and, at one time, book) is a favorite of mine.

It always seemed/seems to be forgotten movie, never mentioned.

Certainly, I never heard Williams mention it, but then: he was always makin' with the funnies so...

I agree. Close and Lithgow were both nominated for oscars for their roles (love me some Lithgow too.)

I think I need a re-watch, and a re-read.

lumberjim 08-12-2014 04:26 PM

that clip may be quite apropos, IM.

I was thinking about depression. I don't remember hearing any poor people complain about it. It seems to be a rich person problem, doesn't it?

I'm wondering, that if people don't have enough adversity in their lives, are they somehow driven to create it? His money could have been his black gloves. any thing he wanted, for years and years.... he could get it, because he was so rich.... but did that take all the reward away, all the joy?

is that WHY he was into cocaine and drinking.... the loss of control? when in his normal life, everything was TOO easy?

Poor people are too busy surviving to worry about how depressed they are. they don't dwell on their sadness. they have to get to work, and to do that, they have to get their car fixed, so they have to get up early and jump the battery again... and then go to the laundromat to clean that uniform, and get the kids off to school, and what are they going to eat tonight, there's only $17 until payday....

I bet they sleep just fine when they finally lie down in bed.

limey 08-12-2014 04:43 PM

No, Jim, I think you're very wrong there. Poor people with depression expect to be depressed/are expected to be depressed/self-medicate with drink or drugs until they die of excess/get treatment of they're lucky but don't hit the headlines because they have to just get on with the struggle. I can think of several examples among my RL and online acquaintance.

lumberjim 08-12-2014 05:08 PM

Maybe our definition of poor is different. The poor I'm thinking of don't have computers. They are not online.

Anyone with time in their day to dwell on how painful just living is, has too much of it.

Just getting on with it is the cure. It's when you check out of normal survival activities that you are considered depressed.

There are varying degrees of course. I've been very sad for extended time in my life.... I always got to work and supported my family though, so I would not say I was actually depressed.

Undertoad 08-12-2014 05:26 PM

It's not being sad. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain.

Depressed people can't just "get on with it".

You won't recognize it and identify it in people. If you've not had it, it's very hard to really understand what it is.

I knew a ghetto dweller whose doctors had him on anti-depressants until he became very obese and had to use a wheelchair. But when they took him off the drugs, he was suicidal. They decided staying on them was the best course of action.

infinite monkey 08-12-2014 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 906939)
that clip may be quite apropos, IM.

Thanks jim, I think it really is. Very poignant.

xoxoxoBruce 08-12-2014 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 906939)
Poor people are too busy surviving to worry about how depressed they are. they don't dwell on their sadness.

Also, it's easier for them to find a legitimate reason to be down, they don't have to contrive anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 906948)
It's not being sad. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain.
Depressed people can't just "get on with it".

A shitload of medical research has concluded that's true. However that shouldn't ever be an excuse for giving up all personal responsibility and not trying a little bit every day, to improve your life.

Yeah yeah, chances of defeating depression without medical help are slim to none. But the everyday problems that pile up as a result of the imbalance, you can work on. Force yourself to empty the litter box, take a shower, walk twice around the yard. These will feel like you climbed the Matterhorn, probably in difficulty, and definitely warm and fuzzy.

Undertoad 08-12-2014 05:55 PM

http://cellar.org/2014/hodgsonundertoad.png

Goddammit, he was Garp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Irving - The World According To Garp

Duncan began talking about Walt and the undertow – a famous family story. For as far back as Duncan could remember, the Garps had gone every summer to Dog’s Head Harbor, New Hampshire, where the miles of beach in front of Jenny Fields’ estate were ravaged by a fearful undertow. When Walt was old enough to venture near the water, Duncan said to him – as Helen and Garp had, for years, said to Duncan – ‘Watch out for the undertow.’ Walt retreated, respectfully. And for three summers Walt was warned about the undertow. Duncan recalled all the phrases.

‘The undertow is bad today.’

‘The undertow is strong today.’

‘The undertow is wicked today.’ Wicked was a big word in New Hampshire – not just for the undertow.

And for years Walt reached out for it. From the first, when he asked what it could do to you, he had only been told that it could pull you out to sea. It could suck you under and drown you and drag you away.

It was Walt’s fourth summer at Dog’s Head Harbor, Duncan remembered, when Garp and Helen and Duncan observed Walt watching the sea. He stood ankle-deep in the foam from the surf and peered into the waves, without taking a step, for the longest time. The family went down to the water’s edge to have a word with him.

‘What are you doing, Walt?’ Helen asked.

‘What are you looking for, dummy?’ Duncan asked him.

‘I’m trying to see the Under Toad,’ Walt said.

‘The what?’ said Garp.

‘The Under Toad,’ Walt said. ‘I’m trying to see it. How big is it?

And Garp and Helen and Duncan held their breath; they realized that all these years Walt had been dreading a giant toad, lurking offshore, waiting to suck him under and drag him out to sea. The terrible Under Toad.

Garp tried to imagine it with him. Would it ever surface? Did it ever float? Or was it always down under, slimy and bloated and ever-watchful for ankles its coated tongue could snare? The vile Under Toad.

Between Helen and Garp, the Under Toad became their code phrase for anxiety. Long after the monster was clarified for Walt (‘Undertow, dummy, not Under Toad!’ Duncan had howled), Garp and Helen evoked the beast as a way of referring to their own sense of danger. When the traffic was heavy, when the road was icy – when depression had moved in overnight – they said to each other, ‘The Under Toad is strong today.’


lumberjim 08-12-2014 06:47 PM

Norm McDonald Remembers Robin Williams, The Funniest Man in the World

xoxoxoBruce 08-12-2014 06:52 PM

Christopher Reeve broke his neck in 1995, but lived another nine years with tons of medical attention and around the clock care. I couldn't even begin to figure what that cost.




Robin Williams paid it.

infinite monkey 08-12-2014 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 906953)

:)

orthodoc 08-12-2014 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limey (Post 906944)
No, Jim, I think you're very wrong there. Poor people with depression expect to be depressed/are expected to be depressed/self-medicate with drink or drugs until they die of excess/get treatment of they're lucky but don't hit the headlines because they have to just get on with the struggle. I can think of several examples among my RL and online acquaintance.

Poor people are depressed as often as the rich; they just don't make the news. Bipolar disorder doesn't respect socioeconomic class. It runs in families and it's tightly connected with substance abuse ... the two run together. But it's no different than inherited type 2 diabetes or any other genetic predisposition.

People with major depression CANNOT just take a cold shower, walk around the block, do a good deed, and get over it. They can and will do all of the above - and Robin Williams is the quintessential example of a person who went far beyond that in carrying on, and in giving to others - but it doesn't touch the darkness that makes it impossible to go on. Read William Styron's Darkness Visible. His description of suicidal depression captures its essence. The online blog Hyperbole and a Half: Adventures in Depression and Depression Part Two are also instructive.

Undertoad 08-12-2014 08:26 PM

Quote:

Hyperbole and a Half: Adventures in Depression and Depression Part Two are also instructive
Good call.

pt 1

pt 2

infinite monkey 08-12-2014 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 906969)
Good call.

pt 1

pt 2

Yeah, that's pretty good. Thanks, Ortho. And thanks for the links UT.

infinite monkey 08-12-2014 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 906957)

That's quite good! :)

infinite monkey 08-12-2014 08:47 PM

Well, Lauren Bacall also passed away today. It just fits into this thread. She was like 89. She had a good life.

Not a huge shock like Robin, but she deserves to be noticed.

orthodoc 08-12-2014 08:48 PM

I agree; just saw that.

lumberjim 08-12-2014 08:56 PM

How many disorders fit under the label of 'depression'?

Bipolar disorder and actual chemical imbalances....

They go beyond what I think of as depression. I guess that's wrong.

orthodoc 08-12-2014 09:08 PM

Well ... what do you think of as depression? I can understand someone thinking that depression is a reaction to harsh life circumstances - that's reactive or situational depression, also known as exogenous depression.

Endogenous depression is the killer. It's the one that comes on with no identifiable cause, and it devastates lives. You're not wrong, it just that it's a complex beast.

xoxoxoBruce 08-13-2014 01:08 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Who said it was the reaction of a harsh life? What I said is it's easier for people living a harsh life to find excuses for their feeling depressed, so it's easier for them to overlook an underlying medical condition... plus not affording a doctor. I thought that's what Jim was talking about also.

DanaC 08-13-2014 02:48 AM

When I was poor for a few years (I'm currently on the breadline - but by choice and with options) I used to think that, and my rocky relationship was why I was depressed.

But over the years I have noticed that it comes and it goes with very little connection to what is going on in my life. Sure, there are triggers like money stress but - it can drop in from a clear blue sky. I can be in the middle of a really happy time, with everything going right - feeling loved and cared for, secure and content and then bang - it's back. Or I can be in the middle of crisis and be fine.

The black dog comes when it wants to come. And leaves when it wants to leave.

Looking back on my life - I am fairly sure (always difficult to assess emotional state in the past) that I have had bouts of depression on and off since I was around 8 years old.

Gravdigr 08-13-2014 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 906939)
that clip may be quite apropos, IM.

I was thinking about depression. I don't remember hearing any poor people complain about it. It seems to be a rich person problem, doesn't it?

I'm wondering, that if people don't have enough adversity in their lives, are they somehow driven to create it? His money could have been his black gloves. any thing he wanted, for years and years.... he could get it, because he was so rich.... but did that take all the reward away, all the joy?

is that WHY he was into cocaine and drinking.... the loss of control? when in his normal life, everything was TOO easy?

Poor people are too busy surviving to worry about how depressed they are. they don't dwell on their sadness. they have to get to work, and to do that, they have to get their car fixed, so they have to get up early and jump the battery again... and then go to the laundromat to clean that uniform, and get the kids off to school, and what are they going to eat tonight, there's only $17 until payday....

I bet they sleep just fine when they finally lie down in bed.

Jim, have you ever been poor? What's the longest you've been unemployed? Ever been homeless? Ever lived, literally, on the street? Have you ever suffered from depression? I mean the disease...not when you felt down last time the Cowboys lost.

If you are not experienced in those things, I do believe you are speaking out of your ass on this.

Gravdigr 08-13-2014 08:30 AM

I remember in one of Robin Williams' stand up shows he was talking about how his cat got into his stash of drugs.

He found the cat sitting up in the corner, with his back against the wall, staring at his paws going "Me-, me-, goddammit, how does that go again?"

:lol2:

The absolute manic energy that man had at times...:headshake

:blackr:
___________________________

And who could ever forget Bogie & Bacall?

:blackr:

lumberjim 08-13-2014 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 906997)
Jim, have you ever been poor? What's the longest you've been unemployed? Ever been homeless? Ever lived, literally, on the street? Have you ever suffered from depression? I mean the disease...not when you felt down last time the Cowboys lost.

If you are not experienced in those things, I do believe you are speaking out of your ass on this.

I've lived in a van for 3 months. Was the happiest I remember being.

I am speaking out my ass, but not because I haven't been poor. Because I'm a happy person and I can't relate. That's why I phrased my comments as speculation.

I work my fucking ass off. Did 26 hours in the last 2 days. I get down like anyone else, it's just not chemical. It passes. Don't start taking tones with me. I'll beat you down and bring you up right.

Gravdigr 08-13-2014 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 907004)
Was the happiest I remember being.

:lol2: VAN?!? You were the guy we wanted to be when we hit the lottery! You were the homeless elite! You lived in a mobile condo!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 907004)
I am speaking out my ass, but not because I haven't been poor. Because I'm a happy person and I can't relate.

I sincerely hope your situation in life enables you to remain this happy person. Rly.[/no tone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 907004)
I work my fucking ass off.

As did I.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 907004)
It passes.

Right up til it doesn't anymore. Be wary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 907004)
Don't start taking tones with me. I'll beat you down and bring you up right.

Didn't mean to come off 'toney'. And, I'd rather not be beaten.

You can lap my filthy bag, though. And, if mine ain't filthy enough for ya, ya can lap your own. Ya filthy bag-lapper.

lumberjim 08-13-2014 11:18 AM

That's icky

Gravdigr 08-13-2014 11:44 AM

It's just lint.

It's not like there's an old piece of candy stuck under there...

lumberjim 08-13-2014 12:02 PM

aaaaaghhhhh!

pass the brain bleach!

xoxoxoBruce 08-13-2014 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 907004)
I work my fucking ass off. Did 26 hours in the last 2 days. I get down like anyone else, it's just not chemical. It passes.

That's the thing, in the past we always described a bunch of problems weighing on you as being depressed. Usually time and work would solve those problems and you'd feel better, but some couldn't.

Now all of a sudden there's a medical condition, chemical imbalance, they're giving the same goddamn name to. So when three people talk about depression, they could be thinking about something completely different, and cocksure they are right.

Another one, Autism. Most people had a rough grasp of what you were talking about when you mentioned it. But now, lo and behold, Autism is no longer a condition, it's a whole damn spectrum of conditions/problems, many with their own name. It seem half of clodfobble's posts on the subject are trying to educate people about the different points on the spectrum.

Language is a bitch, common language is impossible. :rolleyes:

sexobon 08-13-2014 05:00 PM

I can imagine Robin doing stand-up at the pearly gates: Sometimes after a trying day, all a person wants is a stiff belt and to stretch out.

zippyt 08-13-2014 10:13 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I have heard this befor , RIP Sir , you were one of the good ones

DanaC 08-14-2014 03:06 AM

Apparently, we aren't so far along on understanding suicide as we may be believe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/28773734

Quote:

Robin Williams' daughter Zelda says she is leaving Twitter because of social media abuse after her father's death.

The 25-year-old posted that she was deleting Twitter from her devices "maybe forever".

It appears at least two people sent her "photoshopped" images claiming to show her father's body.


-snip-

British comedian Russell Kane told Newsbeat that he was "offended" by some comments made after the death of Williams.

"People's comments saying how selfish Robin Williams is for doing this, people just don't understand what depression is like," he said.

Fox News TV anchor Shepard Smith sparked criticism after suggesting the actor was a "coward" to kill himself.

Smith has now said he regrets using the word while speculating on air what Williams may have been feeling at the time, according to the Associated Press.

Meanwhile TalkSport has apologised after its radio presenter Alan Brazil said he had "no sympathy" for suicide.

Cyclefrance 08-14-2014 05:32 AM

How can anyone consider that a person who commits suicide is taking an easy way out, running away from their problems, and such like. To get to the stage that you would actually take your own life can only be because, for you, it is the only way out. You are crushed mentally, physically, all treatments have failed you, life is unbearable, you believe you are a burden on the people you love. Suicide resolves it all and become justified as the logical solution. Yet all these thoughts, reasons and decisions are withheld - in your mind, depression is your lonely battle and so it follows that the resolution becomes yours alone too. How terrible and how sad.

glatt 08-14-2014 07:36 AM

I think it's kind of a balancing act. You have to condemn suicide because the message should be that it's unthinkable. If you present it as a reasonable option to end depression, then more depressed people are going to choose it, causing more grief and anguish for their families and friends.

But that has to be balanced with compassion for the person who is hurting so much that it's the only path they can see.

We shouldn't condemn anyone for choosing suicide, but we also shouldn't praise them for it in any way, or put a positive spin on it by saying stuff like "at least now they found peace." Suicide doesn't solve anything. It's just game over.

Gravdigr 08-14-2014 12:38 PM

I am still of the mind that suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness.

Still, I understand that there are many paths to that place. I have explored/lived many of those paths. These paths are wide, easy to find one's self on, and unfortunately, very well-traveled.

Gravdigr 08-14-2014 12:39 PM

Fuck depression.

And cancer.

And arthritis, while we're at it.

Gravdigr 08-14-2014 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyt (Post 907061)
I have heard this befor , RIP Sir , you were one of the good ones

Great minds...

xoxoxoBruce 08-14-2014 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 907114)
Great minds...

Or a couple of rednecks... :stickpoke

Gravdigr 08-14-2014 02:02 PM

Guilty.

Just smile when ya say it.

:D

xoxoxoBruce 08-14-2014 02:10 PM

Yes master.
http://cellar.org/2014/groucho.gif

Gravdigr 08-19-2014 02:56 PM

Don Pardo, NBC announcer, SNL announcer for all but one year is dead at 96.

I remember him more the sign off at the end of each SNL. "This is Don Pardo speaking." And, after that, occasionally, you'd get the sly, just-a-little-drawn-out "Good niiiight".

Only two people ever had a lifetime contract w/NBC, Bob Hope, and Don Pardo.

Sheldonrs 08-20-2014 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 907560)
...Only two people ever had a lifetime contract w/NBC, Bob Hope, and Don Pardo.

And they are both dead. Coincidence?

Spexxvet 08-20-2014 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 907004)
Did 26 hours in the last 2 days.

Man, you are too busy to be depressed. My worst times are during down times. No pun intended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 907102)
I am still of the mind that suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness.

Is it really any more selfish than divorce?

Gravdigr 08-20-2014 02:53 PM

By a damn sight, I'd say.

But, then, I've never been divorced.

Or married.

monster 08-20-2014 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet (Post 907629)
Is it really any more selfish than divorce?

Since when is divorce selfish? IME it generally brings relief to more than it brings distress.....

orthodoc 08-20-2014 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyt (Post 907061)
I have heard this befor , RIP Sir , you were one of the good ones

You hit the nail on the head, zippyt. That quote about the famous clown Pagliacci is in every text on depression. Rightly so.

I can't comment more on suicide than I did in another thread ... all I know is that, sometimes, the compulsion is virtually irresistible. It's a horrible thing. I will never regard it as selfish, only as tragic.

orthodoc 08-20-2014 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet (Post 907629)
Is it really any more selfish than divorce?

Sometimes divorce saves lives. An abused spouse gets out before being killed, and may take the minor children so that they don't have to be subjected to further abuse or watch a parent's death. Is that selfish?

And how is it that you are comparing suicide with divorce as a function of selfishness? Do you not see either tragedy in any other way?

monster 08-20-2014 09:42 PM

Maybe his wife has filed and he thinks she's being selfish? :rolleyes:

xoxoxoBruce 08-21-2014 01:20 AM

YMMV, your mileage may vary, when it comes to divorce... and most other of life's potholes.

DanaC 08-21-2014 04:48 AM

For some people, suicide is a deeply selfless act. If depression has convinced them that they are a burden on their family, that the world would be a better place without them in it. For some it is less a case of life is not worth living so much as they are not worthy of life; or that their death will bring peace or a lessening of trouble to thier family.

Depression does seriously weird things to a person's perceptions of the world and their place in it.

Suicide can be selfish - fear of the horror of a debilitating illness, inability to see a way forward from the point that they are at, the yawning howl of bleak nothingness opening up in front of them. That kind of tunnel vision that doesn't allow you to see to the side of you, but just straight ahead along a path that can only end one way. But we are all selfish at times- it comes from having a self.

Sundae 08-21-2014 05:58 AM

James Alexander Gordon.
Read the football scores for 40 years. I think most people in Britain over 30 heard his voice at least from time to time. And many of us (especially those with parents who did the Pools) heard him every week for our whole childhood.

His was a beautifully modulated voice, even in ordinary conversation. And his reading of the scores was a masterpiece of controlled oratory. In a time before mobile phones, satellite TV, immediate communication between cities even 20 miles apart he was so important. Even after all of those became the norm, people would press their radios to their ears, listen on their iPods, tune in on the radio in the coach on the way home just to hear the comforting sounds in his voice and the scores all across the country.

JAG RIP. A true gent and master of the airways.


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