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-   -   Mar 14th, 2017: Deep Learning (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=32631)

xoxoxoBruce 03-13-2017 10:52 PM

Mar 14th, 2017: Deep Learning
 
Anything you can do they can do better,
They can do anything better than you.
Not you, humans. They are computers used to design things, especially 3-D printed things.

http://cellar.org/2017/deep1.jpg

Quote:

What happens when you have Deep Learning begin to generate your designs? The commons misconception would be that a machine’s design would look ‘mechanical’ or ‘logical’. However, what we seem to be finding is that they look very organic, in fact they look organic or like an alien biology. Take a look at some of these fascinating designs.
http://cellar.org/2017/deep2.jpg

Quote:

“This is not only an exciting development for the construction sector, but many other industries as well. In the case of this particular piece, the height is approximately half that of one designed for traditional production methods, while the direct weight reduction per node is 75%. On a construction project that means we could be looking at an overall weight reduction of the total structure of more than 40%. But the really exciting part is that this technique can potentially be applied to any industry that uses complex, high quality, metal products.”
http://cellar.org/2017/deep3.jpg

The computer calculates the stresses, knows the material's strength and calculates what is needed.
Fine, but what is the calculation using for data? Tables somebody gave it? Are the accurate?
If you tell it to design for maximum weight savings you get a design the is just strong enough for the parameters it's given.
If you tell it to program for low cost it depends on the data for a safe design.
I can see a lot of slaves in this woodpile. :eyebrow:

link

Beest 03-14-2017 07:46 AM

The stress optimized designs are certainly weird looking. I've not seen any in practical use, that bicycle part looks like it would be an 'interesting' test.

Of course in an engineering design required strength is calculated, then a safety factor applied, cost and weight are minimized to provide this level of strength.
Light weighting is a big deal in automotive design currently, reducing weight to help meet fuel efficiency standards.

xoxoxoBruce 03-14-2017 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beest (Post 984235)
Of course in an engineering design required strength is calculated, then a safety factor applied, cost and weight are minimized to provide this level of strength.

Yes, when engineers do it, but what happens when the design engineers are replaced with contract hungry programmers, who win or fold?
Quote:

Light weighting is a big deal in automotive design currently, reducing weight to help meet fuel efficiency standards.
When I look at that frame design the thing that comes to mind is how the fuck do you repair that?

Undertoad 03-14-2017 08:01 AM

You 3D print an exact duplicate part. Takes 5 minutes!

Snakeadelic 03-14-2017 08:03 AM

I find it intriguing how differently learning is handled by different "students". A group of scientists taught a group of captive-raised monkeys the concept of money by getting them to associate desired behavior with the reward of a small metal circle, which they could then put in a specifically designed vending machine for whatever food treat (visible through windows) they were in the mood for.

Not long after, they noticed something. Male monkeys were performing--and even over-performing--the desired behaviors. Upon getting their "coin", they'd either get a food treat or just hand the "coin" over to a female, who would then reward the male with sex. Yup, we taught monkeys about money and the FIRST thing they invented was sex for hire.

Now we teach a computer about stresses and physics and calculus and all that goes into this kind of research, and the stress-optimized designs it comes up with all look vaguely biological. That last photo, the piece that looks like it should clip together, reminds me a LOT of the structure of bird bones, which have just about the best stress-for-weight ratio found above the benthic zones of the oceans.

If the current political administration hadn't just gutted every bit of scientific funding (even NOAA lost a massive chunk of its budget...good luck directing your military without weather satellites!) I'd be a lot more excited about the immediate future of this kind of research.

xoxoxoBruce 03-14-2017 08:06 AM

I think that automobile frame would take a lot more than 5 minutes, even if repair shops had the capability. Of course it's a copy righted part so it would take awhile to do the paperwork and pay the royalties.

glatt 03-14-2017 08:11 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I wonder if they used that technology to design the Klymint ultra-lightweight backpacking sleep pad? Packs up smaller than a soda can.
Attachment 59754

Griff 03-14-2017 11:19 AM



Mind your contractor...

Griff 03-14-2017 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 984243)
I wonder if they used that technology to design the Klymint ultra-lightweight backpacking sleep pad? Packs up smaller than a soda can.
Attachment 59754

like to try that...

glatt 03-14-2017 11:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 984243)
I wonder if they used that technology to design the Klymint ultra-lightweight backpacking sleep pad? Packs up smaller than a soda can.
Attachment 59754

I found this graphic which seems to match my own experience.

Do the pressure points line up?
Attachment 59756

Looks to me like the shoulder area is under padded, assuming the head area is closest to us.

xoxoxoBruce 03-14-2017 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff (Post 984269)
Mind your contractor...

That is exactly my worry, the machine designs and builds according to the ethics/goals set by whomever controls the input.

SPUCK 03-21-2017 02:35 AM

Fear not Bruce. The resulting designs are thrashed to show weaknesses and failure so it can be fed back into the program and around and around refining the result.

If it is going into a consumer good like a car there is no way a sub-par result would be let out. They'd also take the result and run it thru their standard stress analysis programs.

xoxoxoBruce 03-21-2017 04:27 AM

If I have an accident they straighten and weld my frame, how do they repair that spaghetti in picture 2? It's something that's going to be buried in a unibody type construction so I doubt it can even be accessed.

My fear is this leads to more disposable goods that can't be repaired. Sure, make it out of more recyclable material for the good of the environment. But disposable shit isn't good for the consumer's wallet.

The tea kettle dies and is unrepairable, buy a new one. The TV dies and costs more than a new one to fix, buy a new one. The couch costs more to reupholster than a new one. Buy a new one. It keeps creeping up the scale.

Flint 03-23-2017 12:12 PM

Somebody said, just 3D print a replacement part... Can 3D printers print parts in high-carbon steel??

footfootfoot 03-23-2017 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint (Post 984927)
Somebody said, just 3D print a replacement part... Can 3D printers print parts in high-carbon steel??

I'm sure they can, you'd just need something like a wire feed welder instead of an inkjet and viola! Or voila, if you're french.

I think Bruce posted a video of a guy who built a 3-d cement jet printer and went of to print a castle.

And Bruce, the reason for the spaghetti shaped frame is that you'd never really know if they repaired it or not. They could do anything, really, and most of us would say, "Looks legit."

@ Snake, I have a shit ton of washers, does that mean I can get busy with a special group captive lady monkey? I mean for science's sake.


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