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sexobon 12-13-2014 01:36 AM

I believe there are 5 types of discharges and General is still one of them. There's Entry Level, Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, and Dishonorable. I'm waiting for them to come out with an Accidental Discharge for former Commanders-in-Chief.

xoxoxoBruce 12-13-2014 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexobon (Post 916276)
There's Entry Level, Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, and Dishonorable.

"Other Than Honorable" sure fires the imagination.
Well it's not down to Dishonorable(F), but not up to General(C), more like between criminal and acceptable... a D. :eyebrow:

sexobon 12-13-2014 02:02 AM

That one must be for the politically incorrect.

DanaC 12-13-2014 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexobon (Post 916262)
There've been a number of studies on the psychology behind heroism in combat. Essentially, they do it to save the people they're with, enabled by a strong sense of responsibility for those who are dependent on them. Confidence has less to do with it as some have gone into those situations expecting to be killed; but, they still had to try. They all know part of it is happenstance, that there are posthumous awards, and that there are comparable unwitnessed acts that never received official recognition.

I bet they are really interesting studies.

I've read studies on the other side of the coin - cowardice. Or rather, desertion and the fact that cowardice/fear of battle seems to rarely be a factor.

sexobon 12-13-2014 10:43 AM

Desertion is a big umbrella with a myriad of reasons for it. Some have been known to desert because they got a Dear John/Jane letter from their romantic interest back home. Cowardice in the face of the enemy; however, has even been the subject of televised ethics debates with distinguished panelists (e.g. Supreme Court Justices, war correspondents, lawyers, human rights activists, first echelon military combat officers ... etc. all on the same panel).

The reasons for desertion under fire are fewer. They run along the lines of undiagnosed predisposition to panic attacks, mental fatigue and sense of doom, nervous breakdown ... etc. Most everyone experiences fear in combat; but, that can usually be overcome by peer pressure and training to the point where reactions to danger become reflexive.

The consensus; however, is that the damage done by someone turning and running in the face of the enemy is so great (demoralizing friendlies and emboldening enemies in addition to resulting immediate loses) that this umbrella is labeled cowardice and all those caught in the act will be shot by their own regardless of etiology because the damage is all the same. That can be the only way to make the spot correction under those circumstances. It isn't human nature to put the mission and other lives at risk to sort out why someone turned and ran; or, to try and figure out if they will fire on friendlies to get away.

footfootfoot 12-13-2014 10:48 AM

"We must all hang together, or surely, we will all hang separately."

Big Sarge 12-13-2014 11:27 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I've never spoken to a MOH soldier, but I have seen one. It was PFC Desmond Doss. He's a hero to me. This man was a conscientious objector, who faced great ridicule and persecution. Never, ever think a man is weak or a coward because he refuses to fight for religious convictions.

Rank and organization: Private First Class, United States Army, Medical Detachment, 307th Infantry, 77th Infantry Division.

Place and date: Near Urasoe Mura, Okinawa, Ryukyu Islands, April 29, 1945 – May 21, 1945.
Entered service at: Lynchburg, Virginia
Birth: Lynchburg, Virginia
G.O. No.: 97, November 1, 1945

He was a company aid man when the 1st Battalion assaulted a jagged escarpment 400 feet (120 m) high. As our troops gained the summit, a heavy concentration of artillery, mortar and machinegun fire crashed into them, inflicting approximately 75 casualties and driving the others back. Pfc. Doss refused to seek cover and remained in the fire-swept area with the many stricken, carrying all 75 casualties one-by-one to the edge of the escarpment and there lowering them on a rope-supported litter down the face of a cliff to friendly hands. On May 2, he exposed himself to heavy rifle and mortar fire in rescuing a wounded man 200 yards (180 m) forward of the lines on the same escarpment; and 2 days later he treated 4 men who had been cut down while assaulting a strongly defended cave, advancing through a shower of grenades to within 8 yards (7.3 m) of enemy forces in a cave's mouth, where he dressed his comrades' wounds before making 4 separate trips under fire to evacuate them to safety. On May 5, he unhesitatingly braved enemy shelling and small arms fire to assist an artillery officer. He applied bandages, moved his patient to a spot that offered protection from small arms fire and, while artillery and mortar shells fell close by, painstakingly administered plasma. Later that day, when an American was severely wounded by fire from a cave, Pfc. Doss crawled to him where he had fallen 25 feet (7.6 m) from the enemy position, rendered aid, and carried him 100 yards (91 m) to safety while continually exposed to enemy fire. On May 21, in a night attack on high ground near Shuri, he remained in exposed territory while the rest of his company took cover, fearlessly risking the chance that he would be mistaken for an infiltrating Japanese and giving aid to the injured until he was himself seriously wounded in the legs by the explosion of a grenade. Rather than call another aid man from cover, he cared for his own injuries and waited 5 hours before litter bearers reached him and started carrying him to cover. The trio was caught in an enemy tank attack and Pfc. Doss, seeing a more critically wounded man nearby, crawled off the litter; and directed the bearers to give their first attention to the other man. Awaiting the litter bearers' return, he was again struck, by a sniper bullet while being carried off the field by a comrade, this time suffering a compound fracture of 1 arm. With magnificent fortitude he bound a rifle stock to his shattered arm as a splint and then crawled 300 yards (270 m) over rough terrain to the aid station. Through his outstanding bravery and unflinching determination in the face of desperately dangerous conditions Pfc. Doss saved the lives of many soldiers. His name became a symbol throughout the 77th Infantry Division for outstanding gallantry far above and beyond the call of duty.

Take a moment of your day to watch this documentary. See if you are as in awe of this simple man as I am.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKdwsWdH3A4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWheAfEFi_Q#t=142

http://www.desmonddoss.com/

DanaC 12-13-2014 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexobon (Post 916306)
Desertion is a big umbrella with a myriad of reasons for it. Some have been known to desert because they got a Dear John/Jane letter from their romantic interest back home. Cowardice in the face of the enemy; however, has even been the subject of televised ethics debates with distinguished panelists (e.g. Supreme Court Justices, war correspondents, lawyers, human rights activists, first echelon military combat officers ... etc. all on the same panel).

The reasons for desertion under fire are fewer. They run along the lines of undiagnosed predisposition to panic attacks, mental fatigue and sense of doom, nervous breakdown ... etc. Most everyone experiences fear in combat; but, that can usually be overcome by peer pressure and training to the point where reactions to danger become reflexive.

The consensus; however, is that the damage done by someone turning and running in the face of the enemy is so great (demoralizing friendlies and emboldening enemies in addition to resulting immediate loses) that this umbrella is labeled cowardice and all those caught in the act will be shot by their own regardless of etiology because the damage is all the same. That can be the only way to make the spot correction under those circumstances. It isn't human nature to put the mission and other lives at risk to sort out why someone turned and ran; or, to try and figure out if they will fire on friendlies to get away.

*nods*

There's been some really interesting stuff done on the psychology of desertion. Particularly for the modern era.

I know far more about desertion in the 18th/early 19th centuries though :P

One of the things that is quite striking about the scholarship though is the apparent degree of similarity of motive and incidence across different time periods and different army types.

DanaC 12-13-2014 12:31 PM

Heh. Went looking for my MA thesis online and found this:

http://books.google.co.uk/books/abou...AJ&redir_esc=y

Did not know it showed on Googlebooks. That is kinda fucking cool.

Griff 12-13-2014 01:07 PM

Well that is pretty fucking cool!

xoxoxoBruce 12-13-2014 01:13 PM

Tony UT Undertoad

http://cellar.org/2014/tony.jpg

An important blazing star in the Information Technology universe, like his contemporaries Bill Gates, Larry Page and Larry Ellison.

At great risk to his personal stability and financial future, he surfed the Dot Org wave to establish one of the solidly stable
cornerstones of the internet… Cellar Dot Org.
At great personal sacrifice, for twenty four years he’s worked tirelessly to keep this institution free from Easter Island hackers
who everyone knows have brought down some of the former giants like Netscape, MySpace, and Cosby.

Despite a schedule which would kill mere mortals, plus constant interruptions from Warren Buffet, Suze Orman and Wall Street
bankers begging advice, he’s been able to provide for family, allowed his mother to pursue her teaching career.

Civic responsibility has always been important to UT, so without fanfare he's quietly emptied the local mental institutions,
orphanages, homeless shelters and animal shelters............... Oh, and prevented EBOLA from coming here.

If that sounds like UT is all work and no play, nay nay, I say. He's a respected musician in the hot Philly/Jersey Shore music scene,
and sought out Feng shui adviser to the hip and wannabe hip.

Most importantly, his selfless dedication has provided us a stable shelter from reality.
So although he's worshipped here, many don't realize the extent of his influence and size of his fanbase.
His base is huge because all your base belong to him.


Hip Hip Hooray :cheerldr: Hip Hip Hooray :cheerldr: Hip Hip Hooray :cheerldr:

Gravdigr 12-13-2014 01:48 PM

:notworthy

fargon 12-14-2014 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 916328)
:notworthy

Me Too

Gravdigr 12-24-2014 10:51 AM

I'm reasonably certain that Bob Welsh is an Awesome People.

Bob's a storyteller. Here's one of 'em:


Gravdigr 03-03-2015 10:38 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Ok, it took three months, but I finally ran across another Awesome People.

While doing some research for Popdigr on Lou Diamond Phillips, I learned that he is named after an old Leatherneck named Lou Diamond.

Attachment 50525

In fact, they call him 'Mr. Leatherneck':

Quote:

Named by his father for highly decorated Gunnery Sergeant Leland "Lou" Diamond, USMC, who enlisted in the Marines at age 27 in 1917, and saw action in both world wars. To this day "Lou" Diamond is considered one of the finest Marines of all time, and is known as "Mr. Leatherneck".
~ Lou Diamond Phillips' IMDb page


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