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-   -   Rick Santorum: "mainline Protestants aren't real Christians" (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=26906)

Ibby 02-18-2012 02:48 PM

Rick Santorum: "mainline Protestants aren't real Christians"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by "http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/18/1066109/-Wow-Santorum-Wow-?detail=hide"
Santorum actually said that mainline Protestants are no longer Christians:

Quote:

We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic but the Judeo-Christian ethic was a Protestant Judeo-Christian ethic, sure the Catholics had some influence, but this was a Protestant country and the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.
Wow.
Stunning.

Basically, all Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Dutch Reformists and Quakers are "gone from the world of Christianity." Santorum just excommunicated about 45 million Americans.

I really, really, really want this guy to be the nominee. We're talking greater than 1964 type numbers.

I'm sure that's gonna play real well. The dailykos article doesn't note that this is actually from a 2008 event, but if this gets some airtime...

Sundae 02-18-2012 02:53 PM

Ibs, has Mother Earth not given birth yet?
She's had an awful long pregnancy now.
And I might be in denial, but I swear it wasn't me who got her there....

Clodfobble 02-18-2012 03:04 PM

Ibram, when was the last time you attended a church service? Because I'm here to tell you, the type of Christians who attend church every week--that is, the demographic that Santorum is courting here--do, in fact, believe that most people who self-identify as Christian are not walking the walk. He's not saying they're secret Muslims, he's just saying that the average "Christian's" behavior does not match the tenets they claim to espouse. Example: the 50% divorce rate among Christians isn't exactly Biblical.

He's far more liable to piss off his supporters by his suggestion that the Catholics only had some small influence compared to the Protestants.

Ibby 02-18-2012 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 796338)
Ibram, when was the last time you attended a church service? Because I'm here to tell you, the type of Christians who attend church every week--that is, the demographic that Santorum is courting here--do, in fact, believe that most people who self-identify as Christian are not walking the walk. He's not saying they're secret Muslims, he's just saying that the average "Christian's" behavior does not match the tenets they claim to espouse. Example: the 50% divorce rate among Christians isn't exactly Biblical.

He's far more liable to piss off his supporters by his suggestion that the Catholics only had some small influence compared to the Protestants.

But I think santorum meant - and most people will understand that he meant - that they have become too liberal. Here's a fuller version of quote:

Quote:

We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic but the Judeo-Christian ethic was a Protestant Judeo-Christian ethic, sure the Catholics had some influence, but this was a Protestant country and the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it. [...]
Whether its sensuality of vanity of the famous in America, they are peacocks on display and they have taken their poor behavior and made it fashionable. The corruption of culture, the corruption of manners, the corruption of decency is now on display whether itís the NBA or whether itís a rock concert or whether itís on a movie set.
I think moderate, independent christian voters would be pretty turned off by this language. It's one thing to argue that your faith dictates the far-right policies he advocates; it's another to argue that moderate Christians aren't real Christians.

ZenGum 02-18-2012 06:41 PM

It's the double counting that pisses me off.

Ask a Christian public figure how many people they represent and they'll give you the highest possible figure, based on how many people nominate any kind of Christianity in surveys or the census.

Count how many people go to church weekly and actually live their lives by religious rules ... and you can divide the first figure by around 10.

Clodfobble 02-18-2012 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram
I think moderate, independent christian voters would be pretty turned off by this language.

Meh... moderate, independent Christian voters weren't going to be voting for Santorum anyway. He's said plenty of worse things to turn them off. The stuff above is basic sermon material, and not even the fire-and-brimstone kind.

Ibby 02-18-2012 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 796390)
Meh... moderate, independent Christian voters weren't going to be voting for Santorum anyway. He's said plenty of worse things to turn them off. The stuff above is basic sermon material, and not even the fire-and-brimstone kind.

So Rick's plan if he gets the nomination is to win ONLY conservative votes? I mean, yes, clearly, that IS his plan, but you'd think he would PRETEND he has moderate appeal, and could win the independent vote.

Clodfobble 02-18-2012 09:46 PM

The Republican M.O. for a long time has been to fire up the base and forget everyone else. It's not about what most people support, it's about who shows up on election day. It worked for Bush, anyway.

Sundae 02-19-2012 05:57 AM

Someone on Sky News (WARNING - MURDOCH OWNED*) suggested that the amount of people in this country (GB) who attend church weekly is 3 in 10. And that's higher than I would have thought, just from general experience and conversation.

"They" might fulminate in the press about being marginalised, but if they are treated as a minority it's because they are one. And a pretty tinchy one at that.

* yes usually Murdoch's press are pro-Christian - although the Great Man Himself certainly does not live by the Christian faith, I just mean to admit I have little faith in the figure because of its source.

Flint 02-19-2012 10:03 AM

I've read the headline, the quote, and the quoted commentary several times, and I can't find any connection between them. This is a case of "you won't believe what this guy said!" but when you read the quote--he didn't. I'm pretty sure I have decent reading comprehension, so...

Am I just not going into this with the right attitude? Which color glasses do I need to put on for this to make sense?

infinite monkey 02-19-2012 10:26 AM

You just need frames that don't impede your peripheral vision: you can't read one quote out of context of everything the person has vehemently espoused and wonder what all the hubbub is about. You have to read like, one or two more things.

He was funny on Face the Nation this morning, the master of "that's not what I said well that's what I said but this is what I meant" somehow woven into a fabric of I'LL NEVER BACK DOWN BWAAHAAAAHAAAA.

Bob was as incredulous as he gets when confronted with scary nutjob types.

Ibby 02-19-2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.
"gone from the world of Christianity as I see it" is not a way I would describe a wide swath of the christian electorate if I was running for office.

richlevy 02-19-2012 01:15 PM

Rick Santorum is the kind of guy, where if he were getting ready to burn a woman at the stake would quite seriously look up at her and say "I'm sorry if the ropes are too tight."

SamIam 02-19-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy (Post 796497)
Rick Santorum is the kind of guy, where if he were getting ready to burn a woman at the stake would quite seriously look up at her and say "I'm sorry if the ropes are too tight."

I'm waiting for Santorum to start speaking in tongues - oh wait! He does that already.

The Republican party seems to deteriorate more with the passing of each year. Santorium is running on a platform of right wing fundamentalism and outright bigotry. He wants to take away the rights that the women of this country have fought so hard to secure. We are not to use birth control - certainly not have abortions, and if a woman becomes pregnant due to a rape, she must thank god for the blessing he has bestowed upon her. Since families today do not require two incomes, women are not to enter the professions or the workforce, but rather should stay home, barefoot and pregnant and scrubbing the floors.

Santorium is surely one of the most odious if not THE most odious candidate the Republicans have ever come up with. :crazy:

BigV 02-19-2012 03:41 PM

I think what you're ignoring in this calculation Ibram is "compared to". Everybody does this, even you. You've commented on your displeasure at some of President Obama's actions...but you continue to support him because COMPARED TO the alternatives, he's the best option.

For those voters that Santorum is courting when he speaks like this, he's saying to them, COMPARED TO Mitt Romney, or whomever, COMPARED TO them, I'm *more* of what you like, in this case protestant-y christian-y aspirant to power.

Of course this has no appeal to moderate voters, christian or otherwise, but he's not talking to them, and when COMPARED TO the other aspirants, this kind of noise is what they want to hear.


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