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-   -   USA, any news lately? (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=32980)

Flint 08-16-2017 04:29 PM

USA, any news lately?
 
Racking my brain to come up with some 'Current Events' ... hmmm ... seemed like there was s o m e t h i n g

Well, probably better not to think too hard about it. I'm sure it will turn out okay, whatever it was. \_(ツ)_/

sexobon 08-16-2017 04:53 PM

Probably won't be much to talk about until the next ice age; or, nuclear winter, whichever comes first.

Clodfobble 08-16-2017 06:16 PM

There is a chapter in the book I'm finalizing this month that is structured around the battle of Gettysburg. I am worried that if we actually break out into a second Civil War, I will have to cut the chapter and work around it, which will be a royal pain in my ass. So, purely from that perspective, I'm against it.

xoxoxoBruce 08-16-2017 10:22 PM

Not to worry, Trump's war will be very uncivil.

monster 08-16-2017 10:29 PM

Nothing to see here/I'm too depressed to even

Gravdigr 08-17-2017 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint (Post 994048)
... seemed like there was s o m e t h i n g

I think there was something about an eclipse somewhere.

DanaC 08-17-2017 03:37 PM

Yeah - nothing happening in USA right now.

Gravdigr 08-17-2017 04:21 PM

Quote:

To speak da plain truth, it's gettin' pretty damn dull around here...
~Sheriff Bart at the end of Blazing Saddles

henry quirk 08-18-2017 09:19 AM

charlotte: spice for dat borin' gumbo
 
The talkin' head industry is makin' a big to-do about how there is no 'moral equivalence' between the two groups.

As usual, when 'reporters' decide to do sumthin' other than 'report' (that is: when they vomit up their own politics and pretend they're reportin') they get it dead wrong.

Consider...

On one side: race haters...folks who don't merely notice racial differences, but who despise others solely because of the differences.

On the other side: communists (full-blown, sympathizers, and dupes)...advocates of one of the most anti-individual, anti-human notions ever to fall out the backside of a philosopher.

Absolutely, the two groups are 'morally' equivalent...only group worse than the race haters and communists are the child rapers.

So: the only thing Trump got wrong is when he said there were good people on both sides of the fence.

If you race-hate: you are not a good person.

If you're communist (in action or by way of sympathy): you're not a good person.

#

Not a soul there, on either side gave, or gives, a rat ass about the *statue...the statue was just the excuse for two strains of jackasses to parade their stupid politics.

#

Charlotte fucked up royally here. The race-haters went got their permit to demonstrate and -- if Charlotte had down its job -- then the race-haters woulda speechified and placard-waved, they woulda got their 30 seconds of airtime, and that woulda been the end of it. When the communists showed up, they did so without permit and shoulda been been sent packin'. They weren't. Fine. If they weren't gonna be dispersed then the two groups shoulda been kept separate. They weren't.

So, what happened is not surprising: violence leading up to one one jackass runnin' other jackasses down with his car (killin' one deader than dead).

So: the real culprit here is the jackass who told the PD to 'stand down'.









*The simplest, most direct, most honest solution to them debbil statues is let the folks of relevant communities decide what to do with 'em.

Not the government (president, congress, governors, state legislatures, mayors, city councils [or outside agitators]) but the citizens of the relevant communitites...let them vote.

If the folks of a community vote to keep 'em, then boo-hoo for those who want them debbil statues gone.

If the folks of a community vote to rip 'em down, then boo-hoo for those who wanna keep 'em.

All this friggin' debate among folks who don't live in New Orleans or Charlotte or Richmond is an exercise in buttinskys not mindin' the own damned business.

Me: public statues are just places for birds to take a crap, so I don't give a flip what folks do with 'em: keep 'em, dump 'em, graffiti 'em up, make sweet love to 'em...just stop kvetchin' about it.

xoxoxoBruce 08-18-2017 09:28 AM

Communists?

glatt 08-18-2017 09:36 AM

Anyone standing up to a Nazi has to be a Communist, I guess.

Undertoad 08-18-2017 10:27 AM

Where people aren't interested in changing their narrative, or hearing others' narratives, there is no need for discussion.

Gravdigr 08-18-2017 11:41 AM

I have a single sentence to throw out there:

If a single Confederate statue has to be removed because of connotations to slavery, (which is what I'm getting as the reason for the removal of Confederate statues in this political climate) then George Washington and Thomas Jefferson have to come off Mt. Rushmore.

Posted again for clarity:

If a single Confederate statue is removed because of connotations to slavery, then George Washington and Thomas Jefferson have to be removed from Mt. Rushmore.

Ok, that was more than one sentence.

glatt 08-18-2017 11:51 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I changed my opinion this week.

Robert E. Lee is probably the most famous Arlingtonian in history.

This is his house. The mansion on the hill overlooking Arlington National Cemetery.

Attachment 61529

The County Government uses his house in its official seal.
Attachment 61531

My children attend Washington-Lee high school, and they are called the Generals.

Some of my favorite stores and restaurants here are located along Lee Highway.

I never drive on it, but the stretch of Route 1 that runs through town is called Jefferson Davis Highway.

All this stuff seems as normal as breathing the air. It's part of the language that I use. I speak Lee's name hundreds of times a year as I talk about the places around town.

I had always heard that he was reluctant about his involvement in the Civil War. That he opposed slavery. That he was a very honorable, pious man. I knew he owned slaves, but had heard that he freed his slaves and those slaves founded a church that I used to attend here in Arlington. I viewed him as a human being who was a product of his times. That he was doing his very best in the times that he lived.

Then a couple of days ago, a friend of mine posted on FB that she was going to ask the School Board to change the name of my kid's school. She was looking for people to join her. I was tempted to respond that I would be opposing her, because these names are part of our history here. But instead I remained silent and actually started reading up about Lee so I could explain things to her.

Turns out he was a fucking prick.

He didn't say much about slavery. There is one letter he wrote where he says slavery is evil. That is quoted a lot by people who want to make him out to be the nice guy. But the quote is taken out of context. The whole quote has him saying basically that slavery is evil, but that its good for blacks and that they are lucky to have whites taking care of them. And slavery should end when God decides it should end. I'm paraphrasing.

He married Mary Custis, and when her dad died, he got that big plantation in Arlington where the house is. Lee was named the executor of the estate. The will dictated that all the slaves working at the Custis estate be freed upon the death of Mary's dad. It used some legal phrase that basically meant "as soon as possible" upon death. But the estate was in debt and was not profitable. Lee felt that he had to make the estate profitable before he could honor that instruction in the will. So he didn't free them. Instead, he split up the slave families, against the precedent set my Mary Custis's dad when he ran the place. Lee rented out the slaves to various other plantations in the area. At one point, two slaves who believed they were supposed to be free upon the death of their former master escaped. They made it to northern Maryland before they were captured and returned to Lee. Lee ordered them both (a bother and sister) stripped to the waist and tied to a pole in the barn. The overseer bound them, but refused to obey Lee's command to whip them. So Lee got a local constable to come in and do the whipping. (There is a receipt of this payment to the constable.) The constable whipped them both so bad their skin was broken, and then Lee (this is where I lost any empathy for him) ordered that salt be pour on their open wounds. He felt he had to make an example of them to the other slaves who thought they were free. Here.

So then a couple years go by, and Virginia secedes from the Union. Lee didn't want there to be a Civil War. He thought the South would lose. But he broke his solemn oath to uphold the Constitution of the US, and took up arms against his country. He felt it was too important to defend Virginia. (Which only wanted the ability to hold human beings in slavery.)

He "defended" Virginia by invading the North and attacking Pennsylvania and killing thousands of people.

So I changed my mind. Lee was literally a traitor who took up arms against his country. He was a racist who thought whites needed to beat the slaves to help them improve. He was an unusually cruel slave owner who meted out punishment more severe than the overseer thought was appropriate.

I don't think the school, streets, and seal should have anything to do with him. There are hundreds of books about him and he won't be lost to history, but he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in every day conversation when I talk about schools and streets.

Gravdigr 08-18-2017 12:01 PM

Should any statues of Lee be removed?


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