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-   -   The proper role and scope of government (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=26074)

BigV 08-05-2013 12:18 PM

The police do have authority in this case, it would appear. It is also plainly obvious that this is a case of excessive use of force. Was it motivated by fear, or inexperience, or hatred, or stupidity or a combination of these and other forces, I don't know. It's clearly a mistake, a tragic and fatal mistake.

In Seattle, we have an uneasy situation with our police force. We're currently operating under a consent decree imposed by the Dept of Justice. There have been similar situations and enough of them to justify an investigation and a finding that our PD requires some changes and some continuing oversight. It's a necessary correction to a bad situation. The recent primary election had the candidates for mayor talking (and talking) and one of the questions had to do with how the selection of the new chief of police would take place, "should you become mayor." The answer I liked best was one where the candidate suggested that he'd hire someone that lives in Seattle.

What a great idea. I think such a move would have the beneficial effect of reducing the us/them false dichotomy that is engendered when an officer, or the chief, can go home, "away from those people".

Who had the most empathy for the old man in Chicago? The staff at his residence, the people who lived with him, worked with him, saw him day in and day out. Their familiarity gave them the confidence to engage him, "disarm" him, despite the fact that they were ridiculously under armed and under armored compared to the cops.

When you don't have knowledge of the people, you have to rely on your ability to use force for protection. And when you have that ability, you'll use it. What a sad goddamn story.

Lamplighter 08-06-2013 01:45 PM

Do you feel bolstered yet ? Hang in there, you will soon...

NY Times
RON NIXON
August 5, 2013

T.S.A. Expands Duties Beyond Airport Security
Quote:

<snip>“The T.S.A., huh,” said Donald Neubauer of Greenville, Ohio,
as he walked past the squad. “I thought they were just at the airports.”

With little fanfare, the agency best known for airport screenings has
vastly expanded its reach to sporting events, music festivals, rodeos,
highway weigh stations and train terminals. Not everyone is happy.
<snip>

T.S.A. officials respond that the random searches are “special needs”
or “administrative searches” that are exempt from probable cause because
they further the government’s need to prevent terrorist attacks.<snip>

T.S.A. officials would not say if the VIPR teams had ever foiled a terrorist plot
or thwarted any major threat to public safety, saying the information is classified.
But they argue that the random searches and presence of armed officers
serve as a deterrent that bolsters the public confidence.
<snip>

In April 2012, during a joint operation with the Houston police and the local transit police,
people boarding and leaving city buses complained that T.S.A. officers were stopping them
and searching their bags. (Local law enforcement denied that the bags were searched.)

The operation resulted in several arrests by the local transit police,
mostly for passengers with warrants for prostitution and minor drug possession.


Griff 08-06-2013 01:48 PM

Slope meet slippery.

BigV 08-06-2013 01:53 PM

I don't want that level of protection. No thank you! I don't want my confidence bolstered by having my privacy invaded.

Lamplighter 08-06-2013 02:48 PM

Well, maybe you have something else that needs to be bolstered ?

xoxoxoBruce 08-07-2013 08:38 PM

I asked several doctors and nurse-practitioners what effect a taser would have on an implanted defibrillator. They all looked at me like I had three heads, one responding huffily, "I would never put myself in that situation".

As long as the public (living outside the hood) have that, 'it couldn't possibly happen to me' attitude, it will keep happening. Only when they understand the clear and present danger from cops who are trained like para-military, will the public demand better. Of course by then, they'll probably be too scared to demand anything.

Lamplighter 08-08-2013 01:06 AM

Google search...

Europace. 2007 Jul;9(7):551-6. Epub 2007 May 9.
Do electrical stun guns (TASER-X26) affect the functional integrity of implantable pacemakers and defibrillators?
Lakkireddy D, Khasnis A, Antenacci J, Ryshcon K, Chung MK, Wallick D, Kowalewski W, Patel D, Mlcochova H, Kondur A, Vacek J, Martin D, Natale A, Tchou P.
Quote:

CONCLUSION: Pacemakers and ICD generators and leads functions were not affected by the tested standard 5 s stun gun shocks.
Conf Proc IEEE Eng Med Biol Soc. 2009;2009:3199-204. doi: 10.1109/IEMBS.2009.5333136.
TASER conducted electrical weapons and implanted pacemakers and defibrillators.
Vanga SR, Bommana S, Kroll MW, Swerdlow C, Lakkireddy D.
Quote:

CONCLUSION: Oversensing of TASER CEW discharges may cause noise reversion pacing in pacemakers and inappropriate detection of VF in ICDs. The nominal 5-second discharge is sufficiently short that neither clinically significant inhibition of bradycardia pacing nor inappropriate ICD shocks have been reported.
Current evidence indicates that CEW discharges do not have adverse effects on pacemakers and ICDs.

xoxoxoBruce 08-08-2013 07:06 PM

You're missing the point. :rolleyes:

Lamplighter 08-08-2013 07:45 PM

Again ? Damn !

xoxoxoBruce 08-08-2013 07:47 PM

Again? No. Still. :p:

Griff 08-09-2013 05:46 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Seems like this is the proper scope.

Griff 08-09-2013 04:48 PM

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/0...-tasering.html

Griff 08-17-2013 03:38 PM

SWAT because, you know, hippies.

Search warrant.

Apparently they found tall grass and tires.

BigV 08-19-2013 12:16 PM

NUISANCE tall grass and tires, in violation of the LAW protecting the neighbors from gaining LAWFUL full use of THEIR property!

Get the story straight, Griff.







I like how the search warrant is **so** comprehensive, detailing such accompaniments of a "marijuana grow operation" as business records, jewelry, light ballasts, fertilizer, videotapes, etc. Because, you know, that's all evidence of a crime. Except that the crime, growing marijuana, didn't happen in the first place. The whole pyramid scheme collapses because the foundation is only fear, not real.

Nice attempted save to find the violations of the nuisance ordinances... Which was entirely the reason for the complaints in the first place, the neighbors found that property and their view of what it was and what it represented a nuisance. But that would never have justified a SWAT raid, so, they spooled up the be afraid factor. Sad, embarrassing.

Lamplighter 12-07-2013 08:35 AM

Although the initial concept of tax-deductible contributions is good, reasonable, and valuable,
it is being abused now to extents that are hard for me to believe.

Here in PDX, we see commercial building developments being awarded
"conservation easements" in the middle of the downtown commercial area.
It's crazy... particularly when they tore down an old building to build the new one.
One developer achieved it by saying he would add a "roof garden"

NY Times
By RAY D. MADOFF
December 6, 2013

How the Government Gives
Quote:

The government does its own charitable giving, in the form of tax deductions.
When an individual makes a donation to a qualifying organization,
the federal government essentially pays a portion of that donation:
A $1,000 donation from a donor in the highest tax bracket costs that donor only $604.
The federal government kicks in the remaining $396 in the form of a reduction in taxes.

These charitable donations are estimated to cost the federal government
almost $40 billion this year alone and over half a trillion dollars in the next 10 years.
What is the public getting for this investment of resources? Sadly, not enough.

The federal government too often provides the deduction for donations
that offer little or no benefit. Consider three examples:

[1]Nonprofit hospitals are among the largest recipients of charitable donations.
Yet their activities are often indistinguishable from those of for-profit hospitals.
Both receive compensation for the services they provide.
No law requires nonprofit hospitals to provide charity care and, in fact,
many nonprofit hospitals provide less charity care than their for-profit counterparts.

[2] Conservation easements - e.g., golf courses <snip>
[3] Donor-advised trusts and foundations<snip>


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