Brexit
 

I've been avoiding talking about the upcoming EU Referendum, because I find the whole thing deeply depressing. I will be voting to remain in the EU, but I fear that the Brexiters will win the day and we will be leaving the EU shortly. I think this will be damaging to our country in many ways. I also think it will be damaging to Europe.

But that's not really why I'm posting - I don't know if y'all have seen the news about the recent killing of an MP in Yorkshire? The killer shouted 'Britain First' as he attacked. The MP was a 'pro-immigration' MP, by which I mean she was against the anti-immigration rhetoric and was proud of the multicultural nature of her constituency.

It saddens me that this has happened. It would sadden me whatever her political stripe - there is no room for violence and assassination in a democratic state. But it also saddens me because she was one of the good ones. She was a hardworking constituency MP, going to bat for her constituents time and again and always available to them through surgeries and visits. She was a lovely woman.

It is also a shocking thing for it to happen so close to home. Kirklees, the borough in which her constituency sits is one of the neighbouring boroughs to mine. Our two boroughs often collaborate and pool resources on things - there are a number of services, for instance that our two councils share responsibility and oversight for.

It's a wake up call, I think, as to just how deep seated the tensions over immigration and Britain's EU membership run. We are not a happy land right now.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...west-yorkshire

Had she previously ever met with her killer during a surgery?

No reason for emotions over either topic. Neither issue threatens anyone's health and well being. But to gain power, then incite adults who are still children to become emotional. Create problems where none should or would exist.

Brexit makes no sense to an adult. But it makes complete sense when hypes an issue to obtain power. To even lie about reasons for leaving such as money. Incite adults who are still children into an emotional tizzy - to even murder. Its easy especially when so many today only hear soundbytes; do not read anything more than one paragraph long. Become uneducated. And therefore cannot be a moderate.

Extremists know how to obtain power. She is their victim.

I think I would be on the Remain side whilst secretly wanting to preserve what is uniquely British. (Cheddar, Her Maj, and football hooliganism. Well do keep the cheese)

Just browsing around, I found a map of pro and anti MP districts and, interestingly, there was no geographic unity to it, except for Scotland who are firmly Remain.

It fails to explain why they were so interested in breaking off Britain and not so interested in breaking off EU.

Without having a single clue, I'll guess that is because what is Scottish is still firmly Scottish, and nobody is going to threaten that, even if the occasional terrorist needs to be kicked in the bollocks at the airport.

I thought it was interesting he preferred to stab her and only resorted to the gun in his bag when interference from the other guy fucked up his plans.


This poll claims the key to the decision process on Brexit is trust in leadership.

Dana, I don't know if this helps but the referendum is a glorified opinion poll and any decision to leave still depends on parliament which is around 90% remain. Can't remember where I saw this but the whole thing is a Tory smoke screen ...

Sent by thought transference

Of course Limey is correct, as always. :notworthy Being part of the power behind the throne has informational privilege.
link

Doesn't mean we're not in for a bumpy ride in the case of a No vote ...

Sent by thought transference

So, the killing of that MP was just a confidence exercise in preparation for later?

That is reassuring, Limey. I don't know very much about it all tbh. As I say, the whole thing depresses me no end, so I have avoided reading much about it. The only thing I do know is that I'd rather we remain in Europe than leave. My view pretty much corresponds with UT's: remain whilst maintaining what is uniquely British.

That poll on trust is fascinating.

Probably just wanted to ensure his representative was feeling his pain.

The marked absence of facts has characterised this whole campaign.
In a general election all manner of promises, most of them undeliverable, will be made and the electorate generally accepts that, voting out of political tribal loyalty or simply frustration.
Well, it'll keep the other lot out, won't it?
Given the nature of the question, there should be at least some fairly concrete facts on which to base your voting decision but what do we have?
The Remain camp has issued all manner of dire warnings short of seven days of darkness laying over the face of the land, in the event of a vote to leave and the Leave campaign doesn't seem to have anything coherent to say.
It doesn't help that there isn't even a split along party lines and it has produced some very odd political alliances.

So, what do I do on Thursday? Sit on my hands and blame everybody else when it all goes wrong?
Whatever happens there's going to be some almighty upheaval one way or another in the following months.
Without giving too much away, I'm at an age (don't ask) where the health of my pension fund is becoming something of a concern.
Whatever the result, I've no doubt there will be stock market upheaval from 0830 on Friday morning so that noise you'll hear will be my pension fund heading south at Mach 2.

One of the reasons I want to remain, is that I believe membership of Europe provides a last line of defence against some of our government's most extreme policies. For example, look at what happened with the so-called bedroom tax. It's been a disastrous policy overalll, but some of the worst affected were people with disabilities or long term illnesses. A group of people badly affected by the policy were able to take their case to the high court on the grounds that it infringed their human rights according to european law.

And though our country has opted out of many of the strictures on employment, there are still many employment rights that have come from membership of the union.

I fear the loss of that last line of defence, whether the conservatives stay in power of labour get back in. All the main parties (Corbyn notwithstanding) seem to follow a neo-con path on policies, that are downright damaging to the social fabric of this country.

I also, at an emotional level, still retain a belief in the ideal of European unity. I don't want our country to go back into 'Splendid Isolation'.

Most of all, I think that remaining would not make life noticeably worse than it is now. Remain may well do so.

So - for me it is a mixture of positive and negative reasons for voting to stay.

Circumstances within the EU have changed enough since the last referendum to trigger a new one. There's a Wiki article about it, the tone of which appears relatively neutral. It conveniently outlines many of the considerations in one place. Perhaps it would serve as a refresher and spark greater insight into how the possible outcomes may affect you.

The main article: United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016

The pertinent considerations subparagraph: Hypothesised results of a withdrawal

Those silly little blimps are how adults make money at the expense of the emotional. Those blimps do not define market growth.

But leaving the EU will result in less UK growth - in the long term. Whereas markets will still grow, that growth will be stunted. Nothing good is provided by Brexit. Emotions that justify Brexit even murder politicians. That says much about the intelligence promoting Brexit.