Why is it ok to treat women like shit?
 

Why do we have all this misogynistic crap all over this board?? WHY is it ok to make degrading, demeaning comments about women and post porn pics of them and it's NOT ok to call someone a nigger or Sammie or whatever have you? Why is respect for women the last goddamn frontier for some of you?

I, for one, am getting sick of it.

And if any of my fellow females on this board want to tell me to "chill out, it's a joke, just ignore them," you all can take a flying fuck, too. So save your breath and typing skills.

I'm sick of Grav and his fucking attitude towards women. Oh, wait, let me guess: He LOVES women! He really does! That's why he compartmentalizes them into asses and boobs! Coz of LOVE!

Fuck OFF.

Im right there with you Bri. I pointed that out to Grav a while ago...he just whined and had his little temper tantrum over it.

It would be nice if the men around here showed more class, but I guess they just dont have any.

Not sure what provoked this OP, but I guess it's hit a nerve.

I think lots of things are going to change in a big way over the next 10yrs or so, starting with the decay of PC behaviours. I also think that corporal punishment for children is going to have a rebirth.

I could be wrong, but sooner or later you're all going to have to tow the line or else!

eta: I don't like a lot of the stuff Grav posts, but I don't take personal offence to it. Not for the reasons people might expect, simply because I wouldn't associate with someone with those sorts of attitudes irl, so those types of posts from him get 'compartmentalised' by me.

I'll fuck off, I really will, but I find a thread titled 'cool weapons' far more offensive than the Arctic picture in the other thread.

Congratulations on the 14,000th post by the way.

THANK you bri.
It's great to see someone other than me being sick of this shit. people have stopped listening to me when I point out their bullshit.

Bri, didn't you have a picture from the 80s where --









aw shit I think you already know the answer to the question you asked.

Ibs didn't you have a picture last week where --











aw shit

where what?
I think you're missing the point pretty deeply, UT.

This whole place. Really. I guess you could not look at those ones that offend you. Your choice of words "mysogynistic crap all over this board" is a pretty sweeping exaggeration. But it's possible I don't see what you see, maybe because I like asses and boobs too. But, since I am part of this whole place, I take exception to your accusations. I'm not a mysogynist. At the risk of wasting my breath and keystrokes, I'll suggest get it out of your system, then chill out.

Yours in philogyny,

I miss nothing. Anyone who posted their own nekkid pics on the Cellar, expecting to be objectified, should not be posting in this thread, right? Because that would be kind of hypocritical.

point of order.

I've posted my own ass on the cellar (objectification at the viewer's discretion) and I have standing to post in this thread.

But your point about some objectification is ok and some is not being ... inconsistent is well made.

Respect is to be earned, not demanded. If they can't take a fuck, joke 'em. No wonder they're called the weaker sex.




Not really, I'm just being a stinker to see how colorful the language can get here.

not in the slightest little bit.

No, it wouldn't.

Firstly, I suspect you mean posting in support of the OP in this thread -but I could be wrong, it's been known...

Secondly, the OP is complaining about making "degrading, demeaning comments about women and post porn pics of them". How does that get downgraded to people posting pics of themselves and "expecting to be objectified"? ...and the expectation of objectification is a reach at that.......

Thirdly, missing nothing /= getting everything.

You're a couple of tribbles short of a logical conclusion, captain.

Eh...it doesn't get my knickers in a twist.

I do believe in tolerance, even crap I dislike. But that doesn't mean I'll take it home with me. Or keep my mouth shut if it affects my quality of life. A forum on the internet doesn't even break a ripple my direction.


@ Aliantha re:PC - I never, ever hit my kids. They are damn fine kids too. But I do see that society is backsliding into less civil, genteel attitudes. And I fear what the future will bring.

I have to agree with Stormie and others, though. It's unpleasant, but this is the interwebs. It's not "real life". And you can bet your bottom dollar the culprits are kinda henpecked/over-mothered IRL.

Unless you want a heavily moderated forum, there's not a lot you can do, especially on a no ad forum supported by donations. Unless you're rich.
So, not a lot you can do to change it, but you can refuse to let it piss you off.

I prefer the no ads and crap-to-be-ignored over heavy moderation and sponsor-pleasing content, myself. And I've actually been more productive IRL since there's been more mysogynistic crap to be ignored, but Grav wasn't the main culprit for me.

It doesnt hurt to voice our displeasure, though. I dont get upset, but I do get disapointed that some threads turn into mostly playboy-type posts. At least now its being kept in the NSFW Motivational Poster thread. It should really be renamed the 'Pictures to
Titillate the Adolescent Male" thread.

I don't really see a problem, if posted in nsfw. I don't have to like it and I can ignore it.

Because truthfully? Some women allow themselves to be objectified, and some men like that crap. Some call it ' brave.' I call it allowing yourself to be an object.

Why is it ok to treat women like shit?
 

Because suck it.

I know you're not serious here, Sexo. But I hear this from teens all the time and it really sticks in my craw. I automatically accord respect and courtesy to all people. They can lose it of course, mostly through behaviour towards me and other people. But I am never arrogant enough to assume anyone needs to earn it; as if I am some sort of arbiter of what is what it means to be a human being.

Right on Sundae. If we approach it the other way society becomes pretty coarse. I had my disrespectful niece and nephew at the beginning of this vacation. I had to "parent" them pretty hard, things that should already be in place for everyone's zen were lacking. Their Gramma appreciated the support as they had worn her out with their disrespect, bickering, and fighting when she was on her own. If they don't figure it out eventually they're going to be left out of a lot of things.

First off: Happy Bastille Day everyone.

Now. Allow me to 'splain since some of you are in the dark.

I have fundamentally changed as a person since I have joined this board. I am a different person altogether. I DID indeed post those pics of myself and it was for the wrong reasons but I wouldn't do it today. Does that satisfy or do you need more detail?

The line about misogynistic crap all over this board was not fair. Not everyone here, certainly, is like that. I humbly apologize to those males who took offense. Even those females who took offense. I should have been more specific in my criticism. I meant Grav, of course. Yes, I can put him on 'ignore'. Yes, I am responsible for my own anger and feelings of helplessness and disgust when I see over and over and over how he demeans women. It really is my own problem. It's just that last evening I'd reached my limit and I said so. Photo after photo after photo of T&A like, someone said, an adolescent male fantasy world. Really fucking boring. And no, I do NOT want to see an equal number of cocks picutred on this board. It's all just so....yawn. But every once in a while it gets intolerably annoying. That's where I was coming from last night.

And UT? If you can't see that I am NOT the same woman who posted those pics of herself (titties only!!) I am saddened. I respect you and your opinion (for some reason, I do) and I wish you could see that I am different. But if you can't, that's ok. I know I am different. That is what really matters.

Oh hell, I get sick of seeing that shit too. But I get sick of seeing what I see everywhere: women who are 6 feet tall and 120 pounds and gorgeous and perfect. It's bullshit. It's why women struggle so with self-esteem.

And it's why I have always insisted on being talked to for WHO I am, not what I look like. It's why I want to barf every time someone posts a pic that has some of the guys slurping and snorting and rooting about. It's disgusting.

But I'm not mad at Grav. I've come to terms with the fact that he doesn't get why it might be offensive to some.

There's a lot of offensive crap here and an awful lot of selective indignation (not you Bri.)

Selective indignation offends the shit out of me.

And Bri, you have changed and you're a lovely person. :)

Well Bri you are now addressing Ibby and Monster because they saw all that differently somehow. They figured that the you who objectified yourself was the same you posting here and/or that you weren't presenting your pics to be objectified, or whatever. (even though I can state with full confidence that I objectified you only for a very short moment and then went off and sought better pics of other women whom I did not know personally and thus could fully objectify)

But now, help us out here: do you have some kind of contempt for the earlier you?

~

It's all very confusing for us guys because you see, that type of objectification is the entire reason we are here, as a species. Male sexual response is simple and entirely driven by the reptile brain. We absolutely have no concept that it is somehow bad that we would desire to see a particularly nice set and even share them. The idea that it is somehow demeaning to other women because one of them has a nice ass and we want to see it is ridiculous to us. I don't think of you any less because last night I went to youporn and looked at some of the most filthiest high def videos of women doing absolutely filthy things. I objectified the shit out of them and now here we are in the morning talking intelligently about all kids of stuff. I don't get it, was that wrong of me? Should I not share that part of me? Because it's a part of all of us. Should I not look at them until I've worked out whether they are decent people? Do I need my porn stars to talk? Is it bad that these women are probably damaged goods with terrible, abusive, or non-present fathers? Should I only look at porn from women who have a happy childhood? Is there anyone on earth who does not simply want to be desired, no matter whether it's for their body or their mind? And Bri, aren't your changes partly hormonal? Is this a version of you that would not have gotten your tits out at age 20 or whatever?

(I know that when Tiki got her tits out I respected her a lot less, if that means anything, because I was (finally) mature enough to realize she was attention-whoring and trying to be provocative, and I don't like my reptile brain being used that way.)

The hard questions.

Being a woman, I am probably more hormonally driven than a man. Probably. When I was young I certainly had as much interest in sex as the guys did. My lizard brain wanted sex, too, and wanted, in some weird way, I am sure, to make babies. I was very, very sexual as a teen/young woman. LOVED the sex, thank you very much. Do I have contempt for this younger, sexier self? No. I only have love and understanding for her. And a little bit of sorriness for her, too. Sooooooo stupid! But here's the thing I think: I grew along and grew into something more than a baby making machine. It took forever and it's still taking place now and YES I'm sure it has to do with cancer and surgery and being 48 which is a crone in this country and a huge relief as well. Women become mothers and then...for some of them, the sex thing changes. Our focus is on the infant and not the man. Biology.

I used to watch some pretty filthy porn. I thought porn was OK. Still do. As long as nobody gets hurt and scares the horses...you know, all that. Do whatever kinky thing you want but must you, MUST YOU shove in my face? Must I open every NSFW and see tits and ass and demeaning comments about parking bikes in butts? Is that all you've got? Coz, like all porn and transgressive material, that shit gets old fast. And it's hard to sometimes not take it personally. Like: Here's what you're good for. For fucking. For just simply fucking and fuck you and do what I say and be submissive and just shut up about it becaused Immma spurt in your mouf, beeeeeetch. That's how it feels sometimes to me. And you're asking me to shut up about it.

You're right. Male sexual response IS indeed simple. Indeed lizard-like. I guess I am expecting too much.

If there is one thing I have learned it's this: Lower your expectations and expect craziness.

thanks for reinforcing that lesson.

as far as porn stars - I've no idea what is wrong or right about them, damaged or not. I imagine they come from a variety of backgrounds. Enjoy it. Nobody is stopping you.

No I'm just asking the hard questions. I love this thread.

I'm glad you like it.

Have I answered any of your questions?

After contemplating it for a bit here, I think it's the boring-ness, same old, same old that is getting under my skin. The absolute boredom of witnessing the adolescent male brain. Ever see that hilarious clip of Andy Samburg as a teenaged boy directing all the freaky sex scenes in Game of Thrones? All he wants to do is see sex, boobs, ass, more sex, girl on girl, etc. etc. and it's very funny as he plays this 13 year old boy who is directing this stuff. "Sexposition" instead of 'exposition' they call it.

Yes, darling. I've seen boobies and cunts before. Yes, it's all very interesting and makes you feel funny 'down there' doesn't it? Can we move along now? No? You want to see more? For the rest of your LIFE?

Oh, ok. I'll just be over here. Becoming a human being.

eta: back to the original argument - why is it okay to define women by their sex organs but not other people by their skin color? Why is nigger a No No word while degrading women is OK? Why? Did John Lennon have it right?

Totally get where you're coming from Bri. From time totime it gets under my skin a bit too. Much as I am happy to banter with Grav, some of the stuff puts my hackles up.

Naming his girlfriend 'baby' on the boards really makes me wanna throw up a little in my mouth, but that's their gig I guess.

The deeply objectifying nature of some of the commentary around the pics is what makes them annoying I think. I had exactly the same response to yet another comment about parking bikes in girl's butts.


There was a time I used to comment about it. But I got sick of being the 'killjoy'.

I seldom visit the NSFW threads or anything resembling them. I'm simply not interested and the few times I viewed them, I found them demeaning. I'm sure if I "read" those threads on a regular basis I'd be pretty disgusted too. I'll grant UT's point that men tend to be the visual ones of the species and enjoy looking at stuff that make many women feel like objects, as well as lowering our self esteem. No real woman looks like the air brushed, photo-shopped creatures with the breast implants from Mars who star in the porn mags or the NSFW threads.

But I really don't care if men (or women) on the Cellar like viewing and contributing to those threads. Whatever floats your boat. Sometimes this stuff over flows into other threads, but short of censorship, what are you going to do? Frankly, I wish Big Sarge would stop urging female dwellers to post nude or scantily clad pix of themselves. I find such exhortations tiresome, but Big Sarge has his redeeming qualities, so I have never called him on it until this thread.

I wish all the men here could be like xoxoxoBruce. He lets female dwellers know that he appreciates the feminine form, but he never makes a woman feel ashamed or harassed about it. He's like a gentleman contemplating the pleasures of a fine wine. Take a page out of his book guys, and we women will love you to death.

See, now we all draw our lines in different places :p

Never bothers me if one of the dwellar men make a lewd comment about me, or anythng like that...it makes me feel good. It's a way of them saying to us that they find us sexy. Even if they don't! lol. At least that is real guys saying to real gals that they're sexy. Which, given most of us are just ordinary women with the lumps and bumps and wrinkles that often leave us feeling like we don't cut the mustard next to the airbrushed models we see all around us, I think is kind of sweet. Inclusive, I'd say.


It's the more abstract stuff that bothers me.

Shouldn't you women be ironing my shirts?

•spoken in to my phone

I believe we were making you a sammich?

oh right. my bad.

would you mind doing that topless? thankssomuch

I would never make jimh a poisonous sammich, but I WOULD make one for a few I know. And I would gladly watch them as they ate up every bite.

And I'd be gleeful.

like an open-faced turkey sammich?

You wear shirts? I always imagined you like Tarzan of the jungle, swinging around the auto dealership showing off that 6 pack of abdominal muscles and those great biceps. Could you post pix?

* sent by dial-up from the local public library

Well, that certainly changed my image of Jim somewhat. I;d always imagined him in more of a Spartacus outfit you know?

This seems an appropriate place to post this:

I think Al Murray is funnier as the misogynistic Pub Landlord. Because although I know these are Jimmy Carr's comedy opinions and not his real opinions, I can't help it slightly colouring my opinion of the rest of his comedy.

Frankie Boyle is just balls-out offensive, so I can hear any of that from him. Also I think he will go back to visit his Mum and get a skelping.

Rory McGrath is just old-school. My feminist friend* hated him and refuse to acknowledge he had any intelligence. She equated him with Roy "Chubby" Brown (real name Royston Vasey). Whereas I like the fact he says things as he sees it, with the occasional joke on the far side of taste.

*said friend was really quite beautiful, but was offended if a man offered to buy her a drink. She said it was demeaning. And no, I never got to mop up her jilted suitors; when we went out together she set up a disapproving forcefield around us. I didn't mind not being chatted up - girls' night was about us and good fun. I regretted the loss of free drinks though ;)

Cancel that:
http://cearensesinternacionais.files...an-connery.jpg

It's more of a Keg, really. I'm sure there's a six pack in it.... somewhere...

I like Al Murray too. And Frankie Boyle.

Never got that being offended if a guy offers you a drink thing.

There's a difference between 'sexist' comments and misogynistic comments, I think. Most of us are sexist to a lesser or greater degree. And some people are just working to a slightly different code of interaction to me. Context and intention count for a lot, as they do with most interaction.

I don't know that this issue is really about sexism or misogyny. It's certainly the touch point, but.... I think maybe.... the real source of this stress is the word 'Should'

http://www.thework.com/downloads/Little%20Book.pdf

ever read Loving What Is? Bri? It might could help ya.

If you're going to picture me in that outfit, I'm going to picture you in this one:

http://www.worldcostumeshop.co.uk/images/AC038.jpg

All I see is an x...



[eta] Oh, nope, there she is!




I would totally rock that outfit.

I don't think I can say the same thing. off to have a bit of a wank now! brb!

I do think there is a difference between someone posting a pic of themselves to be looked at or admired, and someone posting a pic of an airbrushed ideal to be looked at, UT.


Sent by thought transference

Thanks, Jim, for the link.

I believe in what the author is saying. I've been involved in CBT since my ca diagnosis. It has really helped me.

To be completely honest here, these past few days have been very rough on me and something that might have rolled off my back before stuck in my caw and pissed me off. I reacted to it. Maybe I could have taken some time and just shrugged but the problem with an interwebz and a place to rant is that sometimes I type before I digest all the ins and outs, all the ups and downs, all the this and that of a situation. (Lebowski: New things have come to light!) but, then, you know what? fuck it, too. Coz I felt what I felt over that image and the commentary and the general lack of respect right at that moment became the whole moment.

Am I sorry?> Nope. Do I owe anyone an apology? Nope. Am I trying? Yes. I am trying. Learn new things everyday. Things I would never dream would happen to me happen (both good and bad) but all in all - I'm a lucky woman and if there's one thing my good friend told me to be it was to be lucky.
:)

Who are you, and what have you done with Monster?:eyebrow:

The root problem...

There's a lot in this thread that hits home for me. I can see that Bri has changed and I applaud that because she is more solid and loved here...me I have lost my way here.

I went through a phase where I thought I had to show the T&A to get some attention, but generally I dont fit in anymore and because I dont really have that connection - nobody gives a toss. I come back periodically to try and get back in, but it ends up the same.

Its a bit of a vicious circle, I know I have to put in more to be a part of it, but I find when I need a bit of love, it doesnt happen because I havent been around and I get annoyed again.

I really should just move on, but I have made some great friends here and I keep coming back.

So, I put my hand up to say I have enabled the objectifiers and continue to do so, but its for fucked up reasons.

Sorry

Awww...I still love you Ducky, even if you don't show us your T&A anymore. xxx

I think it all boils down to the women on here being bitter old crones. You're just jealous of how the men have matured majestically on this forum while you wither away...............................at least that's the way Gravdigr explained it to me. Face it, after 30 most women are so haggered we'd be doing them a favor to put them out of their misery

Ducks...we all love you. And when you aren't here we all miss you.

Ducks, ... What Dana said.


Sarge, you naughty, naughty boy!

Not to mention Ducks tells the world's best spider stories.


I have related the huntsman drama to friends and relatives and the response has been a uniform ohmigodnoshudder.

I do miss you when you're gone, Ducks! I think you are a very cool, independant woman. I reallly like you!! I'm sorry that that has not come through to you.

Stay here. You are very much needed and very much wanted.

Ali and I have some fundamental disagreements and I, stupidly and xenophobically, thought you Oz chickas would stick together and you not want to hear from me, etc.

Isn't it weird the things we make up in our heads?

Sarge, you need to add a smily-face, or you've just blown it BIG TIME. :eek:

Sarge is always like that - especially when it's his time of the month ...