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Originally posted by Clodfobble
Show me another administration that routinely violates American principles - on direct orders from the President? Please - show me where torture in VietNam was ordered at the highest levels in Washington?

Are you saying you have proof that George Jr. ordered the torture himself? The highest evidence anyone's shown me is that Rumsfeld condoned it.

Rumsfeld is the highest levels of the George Jr administration. A question remains of where in topmost government this torture was authorized. But the guilt does not even stop there. Posted previously:

What is the common factor among Abu Ghraib, Brooklyn House of Detention, Guantanamo, and the Passaic County jail? The George Jr administration.

Guantanamo is directly traceable to George Jr himself. It was created specifically to violate American laws and international treaties. It was created specifically so that American principles could be violated. George Jr made Gitmoizing possible. No other president dared to do that. None. Gitmoizing is an all time new low for all American presidents.

The Economist further defines the problem even way back on 8 May 2003 when most Americans believed this president was honest:

This claim that America is free do whatever it wishes with the Guantanamo prisoners is unworthy of a nation which has cherished the rule of law from its very birth, and represents a more extreme approach than it has taken even during periods of all-out war. It has alienated many other governments at a time when the effort to defeat terrorism requires more international co-operation in law enforcement than ever before. America's casual brushing aside of the Geneva Conventions, which require at least a review of each prisoner's status by an independent tribunal, made America's invocation of these same conventions on behalf of its own soldiers during the recent Iraq conflict sound hypocritical.

And the Economist is just being nice. Evil (according to George Jr's definition) does not just stop there. Even more evil is found with and around George Jr. Again from the Economist of 17 Jun 2004 entitled "What on earth were they thinking?"

Last week, senators questioned John Ashcroft on this issue—and the attorney-general refused to hand over the memo in question. But in another sign that the administration's power over its subordinates is slipping, somebody leaked the full text to the Washington Post. The details make ugly reading for any friend of America.

The memo, which dates from August 2002, looks at the sections of the legal code (2340-2340A) which implement the UN Convention against Torture. It claims torture can be justified on three grounds.

First, it narrows the definition of torture, saying American law “was intended to proscribe only the most egregious conduct.” ... the memo goes further than most ordinary opinion would in defining torture as “equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function or even death.” On the face of it, that means sliding needles under fingernails or holding someone's head under water to the point of drowning would not count as torture under the law.

Constitutionally, its second argument is no less striking. This is that the president can do whatever he wants in war, or, as the memo puts it, “enjoys complete discretion in the exercise of his commander-in-chief authority.” Interrogations, the memo says, are a “core function of the commander-in-chief.” ...

This comes near saying that the president is above the law when acting as commander-in-chief in wartime. No other president has made such a claim. ...

In addition, the memo claims the particular law in question (2340) cannot apply because it offends against presidential power. This law governs the activities of Americans abroad, so it applies almost entirely to soldiers and spies—people under the president's command. In other words, the memo argues that the law cannot really apply at all. Yet there is a long tradition in the United States against interpreting laws in such a way as to render them meaningless.

The memo's third argument is that, in rare cases when acts are so egregious that they amount to torture, and do not challenge presidential power, torturers are still able to claim immunity. They could only be prosecuted if it were shown their main intent was to inflict pain. If they intended to extract information (presumably the point for all but sadists), that would be a defence under American law according to the memo.

Ruth Wedgwood, a professor of international law at Johns Hopkins University (and often a defender of the Bush administration), points out that the memo defines its task oddly. Instead of looking at “what is the law governing torture?” it asks “what can we do and remain within the law?” As a result, the memo either ignores or glides over American and international laws that ban or limit torture.

Yes, it appears even George Jr did what was necessary to condone torture. Name me any other president that does this and so many other things anti-American. You cannot.

George Jr virtually says either the law does not apply to him or that torture is justified when the torturer needs information. Please anyone - cite any previous administration that was that corrupt. George Jr not only subverts the principles of America. But his administration's 'secret' memo (in the second argument) even has George Jr is 'acting like a king'. Same reasoning Richard Nixon attempted when he refused to hand over the Watergate tapes. The Supreme Court was so outraged by that arguement that they voted a resounding 9-0 against Nixon.

George Jr is so scummy as to view laws as impediments rather than principles upon which all Americans stand. That makes George Jr as bad as Richard Nixon - even if George Jr did not specifically authorize torture. He did what was necessary to authorize torture. No other president ever did that.

Did George Jr specifically order torture? Does not matter. He all but authorized it with this memo that he and Ashcroft refused to release. How many more corrupt actitivities are they hiding? Is Halliburton just the tip of another massive iceberg?

No other administration ever attempted authorizing torture. Thank god for American patriots who are leaking - coming out of the woodwork everywhere - saying they too see an evil (as George Jr defines evil) president. How many more CIA agents will the George Jr administration intentionally out to seek revenge? If evil existed, then it is George Jr and his administration. The long list of anti-American activities is just too damning.

Please feel free to step in and show us that this man is moral. Show us how he upholds American principles and Christian values. I hear a resounding silence because George Jr is that corrupt. Please feel free to prove George Jr would never condone torture. Torture was a tool used by god's choosen ones. Will George Jr be the exception? That memo does says otherwise. That memo says George Jr did everything he could to authorize torture as religous extremists have done throughtout history. Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisiton. Nobody expected that a mental midget would end up President of the United States. We have the president that religous extremists love.