[lookout123]

Originally Posted by marichiko

The American dream is a quaint hang-over from the past when this was once the land of opportunity. People could believe that with hard work and a bit of luck they could better their position in life and that their children could get an education or enter into a skilled trade and become secure members of the middle class.

Mari, what the hell are you talking about? There are many opportunities available in America today. we can argue about the causes all year long, but you are right, the public education system is a mess. but it isn't just rich people that pull their kids out of the system for alternatives.
Everyone has the opportunity to go to college in america. their are countless scholarships, grants, and loans available - and lets not forget about the GI bill. Their are still many jobs and skilled trades that don't require a college degree that pay very well. the middle class does still exist although the gap is widening between what many define as wealthy and the middle class. some of that is due to time. (you can look at it like a golf swing or a baseball swing. one degree of difference at the starting point can become a vast difference at greater distances. if money is the ball and the distance traveled is time it works out to be about the same due to the power of compounding and freedom to play a little more loosely).

We were a nation of doers and producers with equal opportunity for all.

we still are. we do and produce different things but that is due to technological advancement and globalisation. BTW, i don't like the fact that our industrial base is gone because i think it will eventually bite us in the ass if there is ever another large scale war. but the simple fact of the matter is that it isn't just america that is losing manufacturing jobs. it is a global phenomenon attributable to increases in productivity, technology, etc.

The American public is coming to understand this, and a smaller percentage of eligible voters participate in each major election that comes up.

you're right - many if not most of the politicians are self serving chumps. they get to keep their offices because too many people take the defeatist attitude that you can't change anything so why try. the ones who get out and vote are often the ones who throw their vote to the person promising to make their particular situation easier with new programs whether or not that will actually help the nation as a whole.

If you work hard, you may raise up to a manager's position in McDonald's, and maybe if you and your spouse both work at two jobs, you can buy a second hand car and a home in a trailor court.

BS. some people do have to work very hard and they will end up in a management position at McD's. good for them. they won't be wealthy, but they show up to work every day and contribute to a productive society. Are you aware that a Jack-N-The-Box manager starts at $35K/annual? That isn't too bad for a starting position that doesn't require a degree and has a distinct promotion track and good benefits. it may not be prestigious, but it is a necessary job, so don't disrespect the guy handing you your fries. He/she is working to support his family. and if it takes 2 people working 2 jobs to by a used car and a trailer - then they should probably seek some guidance about what they are doing wrong. but again, you are belittling the people that choose to live in mobile home parks. many do it not because they are downtrodden people, as you seem to think, but because it is a cost effective form of housing.

That's the reality of the American dream today.

No that is your perspective of the American dream today. Most people get up, go to work, come home and spend a little time with their families before bed and then rinse, lather, repeat. they don't sit around thinking their lives suck. everybody wishes they had a little more, but most people are generally pretty happy in their lives - at least the ones who don't fall into the trap of playing the victim.

the reality is the American dream was popularized and defined by the rags-tor-riches tale. those things did happen. those things still happen. Most people then and now didn't grow to be extremely wealthy. but everyone has the opportunity to take their shot at it. success in achieving goals will always depend on the same thing. A) having a goal B) working hard to achieve it C) lucky turns at the right time. you can still achieve your goals without C - but you might not be as wildly successful. good luck trying to achieve anything without ingredients A and B.

Mari - you are a highly educated individual with a lot of compassion for those around you but have fallen prey to the cult of victimhood. negativity will hold you down faster than anything in the world.