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Old 05-13-2005, 03:00 PM   #7
russotto
Professor
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,788
First cause and prime mover arguments: All the "can't move itself" or "can't cause itself" arguments apply as well to this "prime mover" "first cause". So these arguments defeat themselves; their premises deny their conclusion.

Third argument rests on the previous two, which are already shown to be bogus.

Fourth point rests on false premises; not all gradations have a maximum (or minimum), and even for those which do, there is not necessarily an embodiment of that maximum or minimum. Temperature, for example, has a minimum but no maximum, and there is no embodiment of the minimum.

Fifth point is almost as self-defeating as the first two. If a God is required to create order, then surely this God is a very ordered being. How did he come about? If you are to suppose he always existed, then why not instead suppose that the universe started out in far more ordered state than it is now?
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