[MaggieL]

Originally posted by jaguar
Here you vaguely have a point, we have more stabbings here for a reason but at the same time....If you have effective law enforcement you don't need to carry to be safe.

Nothing vague about the point, actually. And law enforcement can only clean up *after* the fact; they don't prevent crime and that's not their job. I say again: look in the mirror. You are looking at the person responsible for your safety.

I don't know why i get into these debates about gun control so much. Partially because i live in a country without guns...

Actually, I don't think you do "live in a country without guns" (and Tony's numbers bear that out).

In fact, you live in a country where the *citizens* are disarmed. But then, as you say below, you're afraid of the "ordinary people", so you say you feel better when they're disarmed. I think that's misguided.

...partly becase of the way ordinary peopel react to situations, which often isn't very good, and if they have a gun, that can be very bad, you simply can't garantee that all people who have guns are stable or well trained, i just see it as an unnessacary risk i guess.

That's really tragic. You can't guarantee everybody who has a gun (or a car....or an airplane...or just about anything) legally is stable. But you'll take the right of self-defense away from the law-abiding, leaving superior force in the hands of criminals.

Natually, all the criminals are stable and well-trained. :-) All things considered, I'd rather trust the approximately 3% of the people who respect and trust themselves enough to touch all the legal bases needed to legally arm themseleves, I think they're vastly more trustworthy than the criminals.

I know a number of people who carry. (Mostly they don't let on that they're armed citizens until they know they're among folks that are shooters themselves, because of fearful reactions from folks like yourself who really don't know much about guns.) And I continue to be impressed with them as a group; compared to the general population they are careful, thoughtful and responsible.

That report I spoke of (and it was in another topic where we had this debate) can be read at

http://www.guncite.com/journals/senrpt/senrpt.html

There is also <i>Historical Bases of the Right To Keep and Bear Arms</i> by David T. Hardy, available at

http://www.guncite.com/journals/senrpt/senhardy.html