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Originally Posted by wolf
Do we have to do this again ...
How can basically all the other rights in the bill of rights be individual rights and only the second amendment be considered a collective right?
(and the Branch Davidian thing basically got started because of their exercise of the 2nd Amendment. I happen to think they were a bunch of nutjobs, but I wouldn't have seen autopsy photos of the crispy remains of David Koresh if the ATF hadn't decided to knock on the door that day. Ditto for Randy Weaver. Remind me ... who was in charge of the govt at that point?)
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I'm not going to defend the ATF handling of the case because it was atrocious, but the incident didn't occur because the ATF showed up. It occured because the ATF showed up and were shot at.
That being said, I just get annoyed at the focus on the second amendment to the exclusion of the other nine in the Bill of Rights. The idea that if everyone can keep a gun everything will be all right is a silly idea. In fact, if everyone were paying attention, they would note that the insurgents in Iraq are using explosives, not guns. The kinds of guns people can legally own are of limited use against a military force with automatic weapons, body armor, and armored vehicles.
The only intelligent thing UG has said recently is about a 'powerful electorate'. IMO, this is an informed electorate which jealously guards it's rights and pays attention. It is one that refuses to give in to fear and to abdicate it's rights for the illusion of safety.
Now, I may want to pound UG, as he colorfully puts it. But I will happily pound anyone who tries to interfere with his right to express his views, no matter how wrong headed they are. IMO, he is overbearing and obnoxious, but noone can say that he is apathetic and disengaged, like so many people appear to be these days. My view comes thanks to the first amendment, which protects and encourages discussion, debate, disagreement, and argument in as loud and raucous a manner as possible.
The real danger isn't when they come for the guns, but rather when people begin to check themselves before speaking - when the chill of a real or perceived oversight slips into private or public conversation. When that happens, we will have stepped onto the same road as people in the Soviet Union, the Weimar Republic, or any of a number of states that have raised oppresive regimes out of fear or ignorance.