[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by monster

Why so defensive? Why so unwilling to allow the topic to develop into a discussion? You almost seem bitter

I posted previously while suffering from a lung infection. This infection made me feel unwell, and also contributed to a lack of sleep along with a few days of humid summer weather with hot, muggy nights. No wonder I was grumpy. I am not yet over the infection.

Originally Posted by monster

-do you feel that you have suffered because of the difficulties of learning English? I ask to gain perspective on your pov, not to attack.

Well, I did lose a high school spelling bee once when a stutter caused me to misspell a word that I could spell correctly (lieutenant). I don't have difficulty with English spelling. Yet that doesn't mean it's an easy skill for the population as a whole.

Originally Posted by monster

I did not say spelling was about guesswork and approximations. I said learning to spell was. Etc. Rules with exceptions, redundancy and the like may not be desirable or efficient, but they are facts of life. Familiarity with those concepts is not a bad thing.

Such concepts can be learnt in a simpler way.

Originally Posted by monster

You also seem to draw the conclusion that learning to spell and learning to read are almost the same thing. There is a lot of evidence that word shape is of greater importance than letter order when you read. That's why lower case is easier to read than upper case and why is its so easy for perfectly competent spellers to make typos and not notice them. Beginning readers have many sight words that they cannot yet spell.

Exact letter order is indeed unimportant when reading. Cmabrigde Uinervtisy aellegdly did smoe rscheach itno tihs (Google for "Cmabrigde Uinervtisy").

With word shape being as important to word recognition as the letters in that word, it does suggest that spelling can be somewhat flexible without impacting on word recognition.

As for learning to read, I cannot remember how I learnt to read, having done so at the age of three or so. From what I remember from school, the early years focused on the sound of the letters. Later reading taught a different method.

Originally Posted by monster

The complexity of the English language may have drawbacks, I was merely pointing out some of its benefits. Italian children may learn to read more quickly, but does that mean they have a better education? It's not a race to the finish line, it's about what you collect on the way.

Many Italian children also learn English at school, as do children in many other countries. So mastering English spelling is by no means confined to native English speakers.

Originally Posted by monster

You mentioned greater likelihood of dyslexia diagnosis. Are you implying that the complexity of English causes dyslexia? Or that it causes people to be incorrectly diagnosed? Or what? You clearly seem to think this is a bad thing. You also don't support your assertion, but I assume you have some evidence.

The journal "Science" published a study in 2001. This study showed that dyslexia has the same rates for speakers of the languages studied (English, French, Italian), but dyslexia caused less reading difficulties in Italian which has a regular orthography.

The researchers noted that identified dyslexics are rare in Italy because the language helps learning readers to quickly overcome problems caused by the disorder. To find dyslexics among Italian university students, the researcher had to conduct special tests to identify those with the neurological signature for the disorder.

Source: Study: English a Factor in Dyslexia (AP, 15 March 2001)
Wikipedia: Dyslexia

You can also google for "dyslexia" and "English" for additional links.

Originally Posted by monster

...and the biggest loss of all if English were to be simplified is the good old American Spelling Bee! Competitive Spelling would never be the same again, and you suggest this is a good thing?

Even if English spelling was simplified, I'm sure the spelling bee would still exist. Many of those words are words that many people would never use in their lifetime. Not only is English hard to spell, it also has the largest vocabulary of any language. This contributes in part to the appeal of the spelling bee.