[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I am looking at it at face value. You can not build a successful agricultural society without land. If you do not have the land, you can not succeed, it is very simple.

They were given $14 million-dollar greenhouses! Their first instinct was to tear them down.

Give proof of that, and even that is not an excuse to violate the family's property rights. Do we bulldoze the home the families that have a murderer as a son? Of course not, neither should Israel.

When we talk about "understanding" we pretty damn well better put effort into understanding both sides. One of the things that the Pals have gotten reward for is suicide bombing. The family of the bomber was previously rewarded (by Saddam Hussein) a check for $25000 for each splodey-dope produced, and other Arab leaders have done similarly, and may still have such a reward system. In a poor society, this worked well to produce a steady stream of suiciders. What would you do?

What would WE do? Are you kidding me? If the US was faced with a similar situation, with Canadians proclaiming war on the US and suicide bombing, after a while there would be no Canadians left.

But Israel decided on a policy of building a wall and bulldozing the houses of the families. And what do you know, it worked.

You are a strong supporter of right to property since you are libertarian right? So why the hell are you defending a group that illegally takes away people's property and sends them to refugee camps? What about the 800,000 people that were kicked out of Israel in 1948, do they not deserve their land or what?

Bruce has covered this one, thanks B.

Wait, so if I I go into wolf's house and steal something, then go into xoxoxoBruce's house and steal something, then I go into your house and steal something but give it back to you after much protest I should be looked as merciful? I will start a life of crime then.

They were told "don't attack us over that border again or we will kick your ass and take your land." They attacked over that border. They had their land tooken. Now you describe that land taking as "theft". I suppose Israel should have said, "Please attack us across that border because we aren't going to do anything about it." Or perhaps, "If you attack us over that border we will declare 'total war' and kill every last one of you."

Hamas does all that stuff and you have a hell of a lot of arrogance to criticize who they vote for when you do not experience what they do.

Criticizing voting in terrorists is arrogance. This is what it comes to, from your side. You know, other people in the world far worse off, far harsher situations and treated more brutally, have not become terroristic. Why IS that.

It's five generations now since the original creation. Maybe time to grow the fuck up and stop hating and get on with life. Maybe time you stopped supporting the haters by endlessly rationalizing what they do. The state of Israel can produce enough jobs to support every single Pal. A perfect bootstrap for a nation is to have a wealthy nation on the border building factories and stuff. All they have to do is grow up. We all hoped once Arafat was gone it would cause them to do so.

Maybe, because most Palestinians can not see peace under Israel, but only when the state is destroyed.

The fact is, Palestinians have been lied to. And as a result, they have hope. They have the hope that they can destroy Israel and that this is the answer to all their problems. Because people like you (and most of Europe) have bought into all the lies, all the crap, all the nonsense and repeated it back to them. Oh yes, the reason you aren't successful is a wall. Oh yes, the reason you aren't successful is because the other is creating a bad condition for you. Oh yes, the whole UN agrees with you, to the point where real refugees having actual human rights violations are utterly ignored, just so that they can gang up on Israel again.

Until they are truly hopeless on that matter, nothing will change.