[queequeger]

Hehe, yeah lumberjim this is deffo one of my favorites.

You're buying into the left wing guilt trip.

No, I'm 'buying into' international opinion polls. I'm 'buying into' the news.

Yes, 10 million have the wealth and confidence to give it a shot. When it takes less wealth and no confidence, 100 million is easily plausible.

Please, support your claim. 10 million was a number (a high number) assumed based on the average number of people that was estimated applied. If you just assume that 'only those that really really think they can make it' applied, why not just pull any number out of your hat? How about there are 500 million that would apply if we opened our borders? How about a billion? I bet the entire population of China would apply.

Yet 10 million of these happy campers face almost insurmountable odds to try it every year. Your case doesn't hold water.

My argument that most people like where they live doesn't hold water? Based on the fact that every year nearly .002% of the globe applies for their stake in the greatest place on the planet? I can see how I was wrong to think they didn't have penis envy.

And to the others, In my zealousness I overstepped in my argument and have to retreat a bit. My apologies. There are social services that an unworking immigrant can use, and there are services that I don't use that I pay for. It's part of the social contract we have. What happens is I pay for Medicaid, knowing that when I DO need it, many workers younger than I will willingly pay for it. And if I never need it, I'm happy to pay so others can use it. Right now, about 13 percent of the country is enrolled in Medicaid whereas most of those are working pay. So even if one in ten immigrants do fit into that lazy stereotype (which they don't), we still maintain the balance.

And jobs aren't some physical commodity. The more people are in an economy, the more jobs there are. More immigrants > more workers > more consumers > more jobs > more immigrants > ad nauseum. We've gone from a country of 20 million (in 1850) to 300 million. And so far, the number of immigrants has yet to cripple our economy.

If we instantly legalized all of the immigrants in our country now, they would get the same services they have now, AND pay taxes (and be susceptible to minimum wage laws... another plus!)
Every argument so far is not based off the concept that immigrants are good working people, but we just can't afford it. The argument I've seen is that they are conniving sneaky lazy people trying to take advantage of us. I need someone to show me this is true for me to continue, otherwise my every argument will be met by 'but they're lazy!'

Unless someone can show me otherwise, I still stand by the opinion that 99% of this planet is comprised of good people, and that includes every country. I just can't believe that the thought that goes through an immigrant's head is "I'm going to move to America and live off of the citizens there. They give away free shit!" In fact, what they really think is, "I'm going to move to America and live off the job I get there. They have a good economy that I can be a part of."

If you're not acting out of love, don't act at all. So, even if they DO count as a 'burden' on our economy, If I have to pay some extra taxes to support some millions of people having a better life, and doing what they find most enjoyable... well shucks I guess I'll just wait to buy that TV that costs the same as some people's yearly salary.