[DanaC]

I see *nods*

This discussion has drifted into the pros and cons of communism :P So at the risk of continuing that drift...


One of the things to remember about Russia, is that it was a totalitarian state before the revolution and after the revolution. The Tsar of Russia was the last of the truly Absolute European monarchs. As a primarily agrarian economy, most of its inhabitants were farmers and most of those were peasants. Within living memory of those peasants their status had been changed from property to person (they were chattel, tied to the land). They were subject to the vagaries and whims of the petty lords to whom they owed their rent and allegiance and had no right of movement without permission. In many areas peasants were still expected to seek permission from their lords in order to marry or engage in ther occupation beyond their farming.

Even in the cities, where industrialisation was slowly taking hold, there were few freedoms. A vast buraecracy and judiciary oversaw an oppressive governmental machine. There was no right to free speech, no right to assembly. Any published material had to be submitted to the censor who would either approve it or deny it. Striking workers or protesters against food shortages faced mounted soldiers with bayonets, and were on several occasions massacred.

Russia was a totalitarian state prior to the revolution and it was a totalitarian state after the revolution. There are those who suggest that Russia is once again heading towards totalitarianism this time under the name of democracy.

Soviet Russia was not totalitarian because it was a communist state, it was totalitarian because it was Russia. It was totalitarian because the revolution failed to undo the totalitarian nature of the state: instead they adapted many of the systems and mechanisms of the previous state and incorporated them into their 'communist' vision.

China also was a totalitarian state prior to its revolution.

Someone has already mentioned that Revolution is not the way to achieve democracy. Communism is a form of democracy (i.e the theory is based upon widening the democratic participation to include all citizens) therefore it can only truly exist if it has been arrived at through the building of consensus. In Russia that consensus was not built. Instead a relatively small number of people (the so-called 'vanguard') attempted to force the pace of change and speed up their progression towards what they believed was an inevitabe revolution (this idea that revolution is the inevitable consequence of capitalism and industrialisation was one of the many things they got wrong).

The revolutionaries attempted to force a top-down revolution with a middle class intellectual elite at it's head. In doing so they singularly failed to create a truly communist (and therefore democratic) state. All they did was swap one brand of totalitarian oppression for another.

Because they claimed themselves a communist state does not mean that they were a communist state.

The essence of Christian faith is a belief both in God and in Jesus. Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God, who died for our sins and rose again. If I said to you " I am a Christian, I believe in God, but I do not believe that Jesus was his son" you would have a strong case for telling me I am mistaken in believing myself to be a Christian.