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ZenGum · 10-16-2007, 09:44 AM

Innnnteresting....

I agree about both the attraction and fundamental flaw of socialism. Pity we're such selfish lazy buggers isn't it?

Regarding specialization, I recall reading some futurist predictions made (I think by Arthur C Clark) back in the 1950s, in a similar vein. He argued that as technology takes over more and more of what needs doing, people we have less and less to do. We will eventually need to "uninvent" work.

In some respects we are getting there already: a large number of people are doing things that don't need to be done, certainly not for simple survival. Sit-com continuity checkers, for an extreme example. But consider Maslow's hierarchy of needs; our needs do not stop with food and blankets.

So when you claim that robots will deliver all of our needs, you'll have to include things like counselors, teachers, doctors, and so on. We're talking about some amazing robots, with skills in understanding humans, empathizing, decision making, taking responsibility... I think that is possible, but only by very advanced, complicated robots. And by the time robots have got that advanced, we're going to have to start treating them as, if not full persons, as creatures with interests and needs to be addressed. Robot liberation will become as morally pressing as slave emancipation.

So, this path might deliver something approaching socialism, but only socialism for the privileged few, the humans. Beneath that stratum, the robots will be toiling away ...
Maybe you will say, but they will either not notice anything is odd (like dumb machines nowadays) or will be programmed to like serving. But I don't believe that we can get the level of autonomous decision making necessary for a robo-doctor or robo-teacher, without giving them a very human-like psychology. And there, I think, lies the flaw in this possible future. The robots will become selfish.
You've seen Terminator. Maybe you've read H.G. Wells' The Time Machine. I greatly doubt the viability of any utopian future based on exploiting a naturally subservient class.

wow, six cents worth. I always wanted a sixth sense.

10-16-2007, 09:44 AM	#4
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Innnnteresting.... I agree about both the attraction and fundamental flaw of socialism. Pity we're such selfish lazy buggers isn't it? Regarding specialization, I recall reading some futurist predictions made (I think by Arthur C Clark) back in the 1950s, in a similar vein. He argued that as technology takes over more and more of what needs doing, people we have less and less to do. We will eventually need to "uninvent" work. In some respects we are getting there already: a large number of people are doing things that don't need to be done, certainly not for simple survival. Sit-com continuity checkers, for an extreme example. But consider Maslow's hierarchy of needs; our needs do not stop with food and blankets. So when you claim that robots will deliver all of our needs, you'll have to include things like counselors, teachers, doctors, and so on. We're talking about some amazing robots, with skills in understanding humans, empathizing, decision making, taking responsibility... I think that is possible, but only by very advanced, complicated robots. And by the time robots have got that advanced, we're going to have to start treating them as, if not full persons, as creatures with interests and needs to be addressed. Robot liberation will become as morally pressing as slave emancipation. So, this path might deliver something approaching socialism, but only socialism for the privileged few, the humans. Beneath that stratum, the robots will be toiling away ... Maybe you will say, but they will either not notice anything is odd (like dumb machines nowadays) or will be programmed to like serving. But I don't believe that we can get the level of autonomous decision making necessary for a robo-doctor or robo-teacher, without giving them a very human-like psychology. And there, I think, lies the flaw in this possible future. The robots will become selfish. You've seen Terminator. Maybe you've read H.G. Wells' The Time Machine. I greatly doubt the viability of any utopian future based on exploiting a naturally subservient class. wow, six cents worth. I always wanted a sixth sense.