The Cellar - View Single Post - What do you hear when people say freedom?

henry quirk · 01-28-2009, 12:29 PM

'What do you hear when people say 'freedom'?'

a fiction

really: what are any of us 'free' of?

each of us is bound up in, and by, 'the world' (both within and without)

none of us are 'free', so: 'freedom' is a nice fiction, a convenient, and sometimes useful, fiction, but still a fiction

what we each have is far more powerful and real than 'freedom' or 'free will': we have agency, or, the capacity to choose

not an unlimited capacity to choose, but -- at all times, in all circumstances -- a capacity, a possibility, nonetheless

and synonymous with agency is self-possession, that is: the willful claiming of one's self and the defense of that claim

i claim my 'self' as my first, best, property and do as i like within the broad boundaries of 'the world'

your job -- if you want it -- is to defend yourself against my possible predation on you (just as i must defend myself against predation by you)

up-thread, Shawnee123 wrote, 'Pedophiles are always doing that, thinking they are free to rape children'

i counter: they are not 'free' to rape children, but they -- the pedophiles -- are doing just that...not because it's their 'right' but simply because 'they can'

if for example, my nephew (who is very important to me) were molested, i'd want the molester's liver (as an act of revenge, which is real; not an act of justice, which is fiction)...if i successfully hunt down the person and claim my revenge, then he loses...but: if the molester can safely evade me or my proxies (the police, a hit man, etc.) then he wins

all the moralizing in the world won't change this fact, nor will all the talk of 'freedom' (or limits on 'freedom'), or 'justice' (a fiction resting on the fiction of 'law' which is a fiction resting on the fiction of 'morality' which is nothing more than the median of successful behaviors exhibited by large numbers of folks across expanses of time)

seems to me: you defend against the predator simply because you value yourself (a subjective, idiosyncratic, perception), not because of a 'moral', or 'law'

certainly: climbing atop a soapbox (on a street corner, or, in the statehouse) and droning on about the sanctity of your 'freedom' nets a body nothing... --henry quirk

01-28-2009, 12:29 PM	#41
henry quirk maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,162	'What do you hear when people say 'freedom'?' a fiction really: what are any of us 'free' of? each of us is bound up in, and by, 'the world' (both within and without) none of us are 'free', so: 'freedom' is a nice fiction, a convenient, and sometimes useful, fiction, but still a fiction what we each have is far more powerful and real than 'freedom' or 'free will': we have agency, or, the capacity to choose not an unlimited capacity to choose, but -- at all times, in all circumstances -- a capacity, a possibility, nonetheless and synonymous with agency is self-possession, that is: the willful claiming of one's self and the defense of that claim i claim my 'self' as my first, best, property and do as i like within the broad boundaries of 'the world' your job -- if you want it -- is to defend yourself against my possible predation on you (just as i must defend myself against predation by you) up-thread, Shawnee123 wrote, 'Pedophiles are always doing that, thinking they are free to rape children' i counter: they are not 'free' to rape children, but they -- the pedophiles -- are doing just that...not because it's their 'right' but simply because 'they can' if for example, my nephew (who is very important to me) were molested, i'd want the molester's liver (as an act of revenge, which is real; not an act of justice, which is fiction)...if i successfully hunt down the person and claim my revenge, then he loses...but: if the molester can safely evade me or my proxies (the police, a hit man, etc.) then he wins all the moralizing in the world won't change this fact, nor will all the talk of 'freedom' (or limits on 'freedom'), or 'justice' (a fiction resting on the fiction of 'law' which is a fiction resting on the fiction of 'morality' which is nothing more than the median of successful behaviors exhibited by large numbers of folks across expanses of time) seems to me: you defend against the predator simply because you value yourself (a subjective, idiosyncratic, perception), not because of a 'moral', or 'law' certainly: climbing atop a soapbox (on a street corner, or, in the statehouse) and droning on about the sanctity of your 'freedom' nets a body nothing... --henry quirk