The Cellar - View Single Post - How a 'perfect storm' led to the economic crisis

sugarpop · 01-31-2009, 06:35 AM

(cont.)
Personally, I used to be completely flabbergasted by the staggering amounts of money it cost the government to do certain things. And the fact that govt contractors got away with charging so much in overages, which were ultimately the fault of the contractor, well, that always bugged me too. Then all the reports in the 80s about hammers costing $800, or a toilet seat costing thousands, corruption rears its ugly head, and I was pissed. Even back then, I had a hard time comprehending the amounts of money being thrown about. Then in the past decade, the numbers went from millions to billions, and now, it is in the trillions. The fact that debt clock had to be taken down last year because of the drunken spending of GWB was, I thought, completely unacceptable. Then this crisis hit, and it gives me pause and makes me wonder, is there really that much money in the world? I mean, in tangible terms? In tactile terms? For the majority of people who live in the real world, I think no, probably not. To me, personally, it is completely unacceptable how much money some people make. I do not believe ANYONE deserves a salary of 50 million dollars a year, which is what a lot of Wall Street CEOs and execs make (many of them make a lot more), especially when they make it on the backs on the workforce, when people are being laid off and losing jobs, losing health care and benefits, and their salaries are shrinking. The fact that these bank executives thought it was perfectly OK to pay themselves almost 20 billion $ in bonuses, with taxpayer money, during a global economis crisis, is proof that they really have no basis of reality in the world in which we live. If we allow them to get away with this, if we allow this behavior to continue, then what does that make us?

We are actually in a unique position right now. For the first time, we have elected someone President who seems to get it. There have been recessions in the past, and corporate corruption, and govt corruption, bad enough to raise the ire of the people. But THIS crisis is different, because there is real possibilty of it turning into a depression. The national unemployment rate is over 7%, and in some places it is over 10%, and those are only the rates that can BE counted (some people aren't on unemployment because benefits ran out or they didn't qualify, some are working part time because they can't find full time work, etc.). We are hemorrhaging jobs at a frightening rate, and there really is no end in sight. Still, CEOs are not taking pay cuts, and many of these people are doing things so their property can't be confiscated later, if they come under investigation. They are also colluding to stop labor unions from being formed by working people so they can demand fair pay.

Because of this crisis, and because of the blatant disregard for consequences by the people who caused it, we the people actually have some power again, if we choose to use it. We need to force the government to address the disparity in income that has been growing over the past 30 years, to start regulating business again, (since it obviously won't regulate itself, something we've always known but for some reason keep forgetting), to force transparancy and independant oversight in both business AND govt, so we the people can know what our govt is up to, and so Wall Street can't cause any more damage to the public (or world) at large, and to enforce these rules. Since our govt has in the past been so reluctant to interfere with the free trade system (free trade-what a joke), now WE actually hold the cards to force them to deal with it for a change.

Is Obama's plan the right way? I don't know. I didn't want to bail out the banks, but I don't mind bailing out working people, or stopping people from losing their homes. Ultimately, the reason this happened is because the world is owned by a very small group of elite people. When we allow all the wealth to be concentrated in the hands of a few, and if we allow that to continue, then we will always be slaves to those few. for me, it comes down to a vulcan belief (from Star Trek), "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

01-31-2009, 06:35 AM	#8
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	(cont.) Personally, I used to be completely flabbergasted by the staggering amounts of money it cost the government to do certain things. And the fact that govt contractors got away with charging so much in overages, which were ultimately the fault of the contractor, well, that always bugged me too. Then all the reports in the 80s about hammers costing $800, or a toilet seat costing thousands, corruption rears its ugly head, and I was pissed. Even back then, I had a hard time comprehending the amounts of money being thrown about. Then in the past decade, the numbers went from millions to billions, and now, it is in the trillions. The fact that debt clock had to be taken down last year because of the drunken spending of GWB was, I thought, completely unacceptable. Then this crisis hit, and it gives me pause and makes me wonder, is there really that much money in the world? I mean, in tangible terms? In tactile terms? For the majority of people who live in the real world, I think no, probably not. To me, personally, it is completely unacceptable how much money some people make. I do not believe ANYONE deserves a salary of 50 million dollars a year, which is what a lot of Wall Street CEOs and execs make (many of them make a lot more), especially when they make it on the backs on the workforce, when people are being laid off and losing jobs, losing health care and benefits, and their salaries are shrinking. The fact that these bank executives thought it was perfectly OK to pay themselves almost 20 billion $ in bonuses, with taxpayer money, during a global economis crisis, is proof that they really have no basis of reality in the world in which we live. If we allow them to get away with this, if we allow this behavior to continue, then what does that make us? We are actually in a unique position right now. For the first time, we have elected someone President who seems to get it. There have been recessions in the past, and corporate corruption, and govt corruption, bad enough to raise the ire of the people. But THIS crisis is different, because there is real possibilty of it turning into a depression. The national unemployment rate is over 7%, and in some places it is over 10%, and those are only the rates that can BE counted (some people aren't on unemployment because benefits ran out or they didn't qualify, some are working part time because they can't find full time work, etc.). We are hemorrhaging jobs at a frightening rate, and there really is no end in sight. Still, CEOs are not taking pay cuts, and many of these people are doing things so their property can't be confiscated later, if they come under investigation. They are also colluding to stop labor unions from being formed by working people so they can demand fair pay. Because of this crisis, and because of the blatant disregard for consequences by the people who caused it, we the people actually have some power again, if we choose to use it. We need to force the government to address the disparity in income that has been growing over the past 30 years, to start regulating business again, (since it obviously won't regulate itself, something we've always known but for some reason keep forgetting), to force transparancy and independant oversight in both business AND govt, so we the people can know what our govt is up to, and so Wall Street can't cause any more damage to the public (or world) at large, and to enforce these rules. Since our govt has in the past been so reluctant to interfere with the free trade system (free trade-what a joke), now WE actually hold the cards to force them to deal with it for a change. Is Obama's plan the right way? I don't know. I didn't want to bail out the banks, but I don't mind bailing out working people, or stopping people from losing their homes. Ultimately, the reason this happened is because the world is owned by a very small group of elite people. When we allow all the wealth to be concentrated in the hands of a few, and if we allow that to continue, then we will always be slaves to those few. for me, it comes down to a vulcan belief (from Star Trek), "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." Last edited by sugarpop; 01-31-2009 at 07:26 AM.