[Clodfobble]

You know that thing Flint's always saying, about how when people piss you off it's because they remind you of you?

You make me lose my shit on this topic because you are everything I used to be, before I learned the hard way I was wrong. Do some searching and you'll find me making your exact same arguments as recently as a year and a half ago right here on this board. You think this argument is precisely on par with evolution versus creation. Because I did too. You think you have Science on your side, while I have nothing but desperation and irrational scapegoatism. Because I did too. We could have competed over who could be the most magnanimously smug, the most brutally martyred by our objectivity.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

You are accepting this woman's problem as evidence of harm via vaccine... why?

No, let's back up. I'm accepting this woman's problem, and I am only pissed because you are not. Maybe her dystonia wasn't triggered by the vaccine, that's certainly a possibility. But we left that topic several posts ago to instead discuss whether she even has dystonia. You say you are offering an "alternate explanation" for her symptoms, when in fact you are relegating her symptoms into nonexistence. I will readily face the argument that her dystonia was some sort of genetic time bomb just waiting to go off, and the timing of the vaccine was a coincidence. But don't try and tell me this is psychogenic. Psychogenic dystonia is a result of severe depression, anxiety, and/or existing personality disorders. The Dystonia Foundation themselves say that:

Given the complexities of the diagnosis of dystonia in general, the diagnosis of psychogenic dystonia can only be made by a physician with considerable experience in the field of dystonia and other abnormal movement disorders, often working in partnership with a psychiatric expert in conversion disorders. Patients must be evaluated several times or over a prolonged period before a definitive diagnosis of psychogenic dystonia can be made. A single psychiatric interview is not sufficient to demonstrate the underlying psychiatric dysfunction.

The group of doctors who came to the conclusion that her dystonia was psychogenic based on less than 5 minutes of video footage are playing a political game. It is not possible for them to come to that conclusion, and they should have said so when they were asked. But their entire goal with this assessment was damage control--when else would a group of doctors voluntarily start diagnosing patients via video, for free?--and once asked, it would be career suicide for them to conclude otherwise.

I am getting personal because I have experience being dismissed by doctors for political reasons. You are doing the exact same thing my pediatrician did when she told me my son doesn't actually have chronic diarrhea. She only narrowly missed trying to tell me that was psychological on his part too. You are not "seeking facts" to understand her condition, you are finding ways to pretend she doesn't have a condition. I can accept that it might be a coincidental case of dystonia. I will not let you try and claim that it's all in her head.

Oh, and

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Skepticism is healthy, and you should welcome challenges to your beliefs. When your point of view is challenged, either you will find that you are correct and thus your view is strengthened, or you find that you are incorrect and thus you change your view. In either case you are improved by it.

Don't fucking patronize me. I know what it's like to view science as a religion and pretend it's healthy skepticism. My point of view was challenged, and I found I was incorrect. I've switched sides, and I'm not coming back.

I know nothing I say is ever going to convince you, because nothing anyone said on this topic would have convinced me either. I was so much better at being skeptical than they were, you see. But I say it anyway, just like people kept saying it to me, because that's all I can do. Somebody's always listening, even if it's not people like me.