[Cloud]

you can say that, but no one seems willing to back off or act in a civilized manner. It's like a bunch of two year olds running around with no supervision. After so many pages of discussion, and more and more vociferous name calling among the principals here, we are no better off, and no solution is in sight. And just saying, "we don't need no stinkin' moderators" isn't helping a whit, that I can see.

So, again, if you don't like my suggestions, fine-- come up with better ones. Concrete ones, even temporary ones. Ones that will ameliorate the problem, even a little. I wasn't insisting on them, just trying to offer some practical alternatives to this pathetic display of defensiveness, indecisiveness, and vitriol.