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Old 06-25-2012, 01:10 PM   #90
henry quirk
maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,162
UT, as I said 'I await the evidence'...till then: 'he'.

"what if some condition is set up in the mother's womb which sets up the fetus to have feminine tendencies of some sort?"

See below.

#

Brian, I note in the title, 'Gender-Related Disorders'.

I note in the piece:


It has been hypothesized that prenatal DES exposure may also have led to behavioral effects in humans (Meyer-Bahlburg and Erhardt, 1986; Meyer-Bahlburg, et al., 1995). Primary studies exploring possible behavioral and psychiatric effects of prenatal DES exposure in males first appeared in the literature during the 1970s. DES exposure has been associated with increased potential for major depressive disorders and other psychiatric effects in males (Katz, et al., 1987; Meyer-Bahlburg et al., 1985; Pillard et al., 1993; Saunders, 1988; Vessey et al., 1983). Recent discussions of potential psychiatric effects of prenatal DES exposure, including gender-related effects and schizophrenia, have been presented by Verdoux (2000; 2004) and Boog (2004). Verdoux summarizes the research on DES in the psychiatric literature this way:

Sparse findings suggest that exposure to xenoestrogens such as diethylstilbestrol may be a risk factor for psychiatric disorders, mediated by a possible deleterious impact of the substances on foetal neurodevelopment, but this hypothesis is speculative owing to the small number of studies and their methodological limitations (Verdoux, 2004).

...and...

•Among the most significant findings from this study is the high prevalence of individuals with confirmed or strongly suspected prenatal DES exposure who self-identify as male-to-female transsexual or transgender, and individuals who have reported experiencing difficulties with gender dysphoria.
In this study, more than 150 individuals with confirmed or suspected prenatal DES exposure reported moderate to severe feelings of gender dysphoria across the lifespan. For most, these feelings had apparently been present since early childhood. The prevalence of a significant number of self-identified male-to-female transsexuals and transgendered individuals as well as some individuals who identify as intersex, androgynous, gay or bisexual males has inspired fresh investigation of historic theories about a possible biological/endocrine basis for psychosexual development in humans, including sexual orientation, core gender identity, and sexual identity (Benjamin, 1973; Cohen-Kettenis and Gooren, 1999; Diamond, 1965, 1996; Michel et al, 2001; Swaab, 2004).


Let's assume for the moment Ibram is one of the individuals affected in the womb by xenoestrogens. To my thinking this simply means Ibram is a boy with a disorder, not a member of a 'third sex'.

Nice try though...

For a 'third sex' to have the same the weight as 'male' and female' it must be natural, not the result of disorder or exposure to chemicals (natural or artificial introduced abnormally to the womb).

And, before anyone reacts badly: no, I in no way suggest the disordered boy should be 'fixed'. Again: I don't care how he live or self-defines...I simply choose not participate in that self-definition.
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