[monster]

left in the morning planning to buy the Honda Odyssey if we could agree a good price. Guy was such an asshole, that after the test drive (which was OK but not in the car we had ageed to drive and therefore kind of irrelevant) we went straight across the road to the Chrysler/Dodge dealer -the one that beest had spoken to before and had shown what a lying asshole/by the steroetype book salesdickhead the one we had been dealing with before was.....

Said "hey, we're back. we didn't buy last month because we got all set on the T&C and then it drove like a pile of junk and the salesguy was a dick. So we put it on hold. ........Now we got a kick up the butt to get back into the market and we got all set on the Odyssey..... but the dealer across the road didn't get the "don't give us sales bullshit and we'll be straight with you otherwise we'll walk" so he pulled shit and we walked. Can you convince us that it was the car we drove and not the brand as a whole that's shit, and that it's just the other salespeople and not all of then that don't realize we just want the straight shit?"

Talked to us for a bit, really got a feel for what we wanted (nice drive but no bells and whilstles) Gave us a higher level Grand Caravan to try (over the base t&C -supposed to be comparable, but no, they are not really). (First T&C/Dodge guy lied by saying not possible to get one anymore). It drove fine. As good as if not marginally better than the Odyssey. Previous test-drive must have been a fluke re a T&C thing. (For non Americans/car people -they're pretty much the same car but branded for a different market -didn't encouter such a thing before moving here, so can't find a good simile. A Rose by any other name...."

....It has everything we need, nothing we don't need. the rear seats are not as comfortable as the windstar's, but they fold into the floor rather than needing to be hauled out and stored in the garage when we don't need them. Excellent.

Yes, there are "standard features" of the T&C (and the Odyssey) that would be nice, but there are many more that look like they would be majorly expensive once the warranty expires and are not really essential to our life. i'll take the $100 less per month over that.

So I think we're paying the (refundable) deposit to get one moved to our dealer for us to try before we sign on the line. Tomorrow. (The one we tried today was moved there for another client)

This is the second new car we have shopped for in the last 12 months, we're kind of horrified by the "standard sales tactics" and even more so by the people who just don't believe that we will walk if you treat us like moronic purchasing puppets. This person totally "got us" They saved a whole lot of time/effort/bullshit by downgrading rather than upgrading us. They made it clear there's no real negotiation beyond our industry and manufacturer rebates. They weren't willing to waste time negotiating. (Which is disappointing in that we'd like to pay a little less but then again not -we hate negotiation and our time is valuable too and the price is OK).But sold a car with very little time investment. Because they did what we wanted and didn't try to sell us something we didnt want/mess with us.

Furthermore..... This salesperson let us walk out of there without signing on the line, without trying to call in their sales manager to see if they could get us a better price if we signed right now... without telling us we had been wasting their time if we weren't prepared to buy right this fucking minute. She knew we were going to buy but would walk if faced with a "sign now or lose the deal" (yes, there is no deal, there's absolutely no need to sign now, but they still try that shit anyway.....) But she is the first dealer to ever be cool with us sayig "we never sign anything on the spot, we need to go haome, take 24 hours and discuss..." And she's getting a sale.

Yes, it was a she. Car Sales Places, you'd do so much better hiring more women salespeople. When i was in sales (not cars) as a student, the women always earned more comission than the guys. They get people. I'm not sating hie all women. But more of them.

It's not the car of anyone's dreams, but it's the car of our reality and if it does what the Windstar did, it will have done it's job.

The only downer is the trade-in they offered for the Windstar. we knew it would be low, but it's laughable -a third of what sales-lady said when beest talked to her before, even though he was honest about it's condition. That said, there's currently a rebate that make it worth it to accept it. If we sold it privately, we might be able to get a few hundred more, but -given the stress of car-buying, it's worth that to us not to have to deal with the stress of car-selling.