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Old 12-15-2013, 11:27 AM   #95
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhelm View Post
I think you've missed my point about 4wd, too. I posted the video about jeep because you said they use expensive computer systems to control them. They don't. The Subaru video was to highlight the difference between actual 4wd vs all wheel drive.
I understood that. And then noted were many versions of four wheel drive. Different names are created to describe variations of what is still only four wheel drive. With and without expensive computers. How it works is defined by how tightly wheels are interlocked. An expensive computer system is necessary to reduce four wheel drive crashes (ie stability control, etc) when wheels are tightly interlocked. But the tradeoff remains even with that computer system.

If a four wheel drive can get you moving, then it also seriously decreases safety at speed. To increase safety on four wheel drive vehicles (so that the vehicle crashes into guard rails less often), then four wheel drive is less robust at getting unstuck. To increase safety, interlocking is reduced to the point that it sometimes does not work well on shear ice - as the video demonstrates.

As you admit and what I said repeatedly, the Jeep is not purchased for logical reasons. The Jeep is designed to make you feel (emotionally) superior. Why is it so high with poor ground clearance? Why does it hype four wheel drive? Almost no Jeep owners need it or use it. FWD makes Jeep a more dangerous vehicle in inclement weather and at speed. It makes many feel superior and cool. Jeep is a lesser vehicle with a massive profit margin. It sold on emotion; not on vehicle quality, safety, or innovation.

Every Jeep model has appeared in Consumer Report's "Used cars to avoid" list. Their safety abilities (including accident avoidance) is often marginal or among the worst. History defined reliability as poor. So yes, Jeeps clearly violate Lola Bunny's requirements. Jeeps do not sell on quality, safety, reliability, or innovation. They sell on image.

Torque is a sales gimmick. Anyone can see through that myth using high school physics. Torque (that matters) is defined by gear ratios. Even a mechanical clock can create as much torque as a car by changing gear ratios. What is the difference between a clock and a Jeep with same torque? The clock moves slower due to less horsepower. Horsepower (not torque) is the relevant parameter.

That physics formula is simple. Torque times speed equals horsepower. Any drivetrain can create the same torque. Only horsepower is relevant. Since domestic engines were so crappy (so low performance), then spin doctors (advertising) invented the torque myth. Hoping naïve consumers would believe it and buy obsolete technology V-8 engines. If torque is so important, then why are V-8s no longer found on Indy and Formula One race tracks? Torque myth only exists when high school physics is ignored or forgotten. A torque myth exists to divert attention from what is relevant: performance (Hp/liter).

Hyundai has competitive products due to major changes that occurred in Korea somewhere around the early 1990s. A major overthrow of top government and corporate leaders (chaebols) occurred across the entire nation. As a result, stoic and staid management was replaced by innovators. Some of the world's best steel now comes from Korea. The world's most technically advanced ships are built in Korea which also has the world's largest and most profitable shipyards. LG and Samsung make world class appliances. So good that companies such as Panasonic and Sony are abandoning markets including TVs or semiconductors. Hyundai best accomplishments are in both cars and ships.

Over the past six years, Hyundai still does not have quality numbers found in Honda and Toyota. But Hyundai has a best improved product line in the past 20 years. It takes decades (as the above Ford story demonstrates). One need only view Consumer Report's "Used cars to avoid" list to see the difference. Every Jeep and every Chevy model (except the Volt) at some point appears on that list of the 15% worst products. Almost no Hyundais are listed. Hyundai products are that significant.
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