View Single Post
Old 10-17-2015, 05:09 AM   #362
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
Quote:
When the last women leaves the table in discomfort or disgust, stop the timer, and check the results. For a control - do the exact while focusing instead more on how she looks, how far she went and generally stay in line with basic dude questioning.

1. You are deliberately attempting to make other guests at this social function feel discomfort and disgust - literally timing how long it takes to drive those people away from the conversation.
2. You have set out to have a staged conversation on the pretense of innocent socialising when in fact you have a hidden agenda
3. You have made a massive assumption about how all men view and discuss their dates with women, based solely on your own personal experience. You do not have enough personal exerience to extrapolate that to all men.
4. You have made a massive assumption about how all women respond to and view men's conversation about women. You do not have enough personal exerience to extrapolate that to all women.

It is a cold way to treat friends and acquaintances.
It is a fundamentally flawed methodology for any kind of test.
It is a test that is wide open to confirmation bias
It is a test that relies on you 'reading' why those people have left - was it really the content of the questioning that made them leave, or was there something in your tone that was off-putting. Maybe the dishonesty inherent in such ulterior motives made you seem cold or strange, or pushy during the conversation. You have no idea and neither do I - because there was no control. Flipping the questions to looks does not control for changes in your own demeanour - you are not a mere observer in the test, you are a participant in the group and your participation changes the dynamics of that group and must therefore affect the results of the test, one way or another.

It is a test that relies on a wholly reductive view of gender.

Couching it in terms of wanting men to judge women on their behaviour and personality instead of looks does not remove the insidious layer of judgement you apply to women.

Maybe there's a communication breakdown here, trace, but your view of women does not seem very nice to me. Nor indeed does your view of men.

To throw one entirely unscientific personal experience out there to counter your entirely unscientific personal experience:

I was once a member of an online guild who believed I was a man. It was in the days before Teamtalk and other such things - all communication was text based - in game, in ICQ and mIRC. I became very good friends with several of the guild - to the point I eventually trusted them enough to 'come out' as female.

Back when they thought I was a guy I had the experience of talking with a group of men who thought there were no women present. Know what I discovered? The conversations were not different to the conversations I have with my girlfriends. One of them, the guild leader, was recovering from a nasty divorce and was now a single parent to his little girl. He was back on the dating scene - he would tell us about the women he'd dated - and you know what was of most concern to him? What she was like as a person. Did he tell us how awesome she looked? Sure. Did he tell us about her gorgeous smile, and beautiful hair? Yes. He was surprinsgly circumspect about what they'd done in the sack. There were odd comments about tits and ass. But the bulk of what he talked about was what she was like as a person - whether she was someone he could spend time with and whose company he enjoyed, and whether or not she'd get along with his girl. Oh yeah, and whether she believed in God. I remember that being a deal breaker with one woman. Rog was a believer - though not a bible-basher.

I've never forgotten that experience of being in a group of guys who didn;t know there was a woman there. I didn't keep my gender secret to test them or observe. It was the late '90s and being a woman in an mmorpg brought a lot of unwelcome bullshit from the mostly male players. To be accepted fully, I had a male character and initially stayed wholly in character throughout. As ad-hoc groups became guilds, then friends, I didn't want that acceptance to evaporate so i stayed male even when not in character.

I eventually came out and stayed friends with those people. The dynamic changed - and there was a tonal shift in how those men related tome now that I was known female.

It stayed with me though. Because it surprised me and confounded a lot of my expectations. The biggest lesson i took from it was that really, friends talk with friends in very similar ways whether they are male or female. The differences come in when the group is mixed. Maybe when groups are mixed, men act like men and women act like women - without the other gender there we are free to simply act as people.

I don't know. It's complicated. People are complicated. Taking a stopwatch to a social function and trying to deliberately freak out female guests with staged conversation does not give you a superior insight into people.
__________________
Quote:
There's only so much punishment a man can take in pursuit of punani. - Sundae
http://sites.google.com/site/danispoetry/

Last edited by DanaC; 10-17-2015 at 05:56 AM.
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote