[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by glatt

Iraq isn't helping the oil flow, but that's only because we are losing. We are there to build a democracy in the region so we can have power and influence in a region that has lots of oil.

Saddam's Iraq was a pariah. A democratic Iraq would be the same for the same reasons. That's really stretching the term "influence".
I think any influence would be our military presence kept there.

Since we are tangled up in the Mid East and spending a lot of money there, we should look at why we are doing that, and why we have been doing it for decades. It's to keep the oil flowing.

Whoa, not so fast. All the billions to Israel every year is to keep the oil flowing? And Pakistan? And Turkey? That was supposed to keep the Soviets in check, not oil. Of course once you've spoiled them, you can't stop.

We need to be there. We depend on their oil. Sometimes our meddling works. Sometimes it doesn't. Right now it isn't working, but we are still spending that money there for that purpose. The money comes from your income taxes, and it comes from selling debt to foreign countries. That debt will be paid back by future generations, and will result in a drag on our economy. We will pay for Iraq, one way or another..

I agree all this wasted money in Iraq is coming out of our pockets, eventually.

All of these costs are hidden from the populace. They won't realize in 5 or 10 years that the reason they are having trouble making ends meet is because they were driving SUVs in the 1990s. If that cost was upfront. And consumers could see what their choices actually meant, then I think many consumers would make different choices.

The Iraq war is costing $2 Billion each week. That works out to $7 a week per person in the US, or about $30 per household per week. That's $1,500 per year per household. All, presumably to keep our influence in the middle east strong so that the oil will keep flowing.

Hidden? What are those links to, secret files? It's in the news all the time, mind boggling numbers, telling us the cost of this war.

My car gets twice the gas mileage of some of the larger SUVs. If that cost was reflect at the pump instead of coming out of my income taxes and future earnings, then my portion of the cost would be smaller. I'd be paying only $1000 per year while the SUV owners would be facing $2000. With math like that, in your face, at the pump, I'm certain fewer people would buy SUVs.

Horseshit, if all the SUVs vanished overnight, we'd still be spending billions in Iraq. If we stopped using oil overnight we'd still be spending billions in Iraq. Hello....War on Terror?

Over time, with fewer SUVs, our oil dependency would be reduced, and our need for meddling would be reduced. An added bonus would be that alternative fuels would have an easier job competing.

Take a look at the DOE chart below, it's in quadrillions of BTUs, but you get the picture. About 40% of the energy comes from oil and about 28% (about equal what we import) goes to transportation. A little less than half of that goes into gasoline, roughly 45% or 12.6% of our energy usage.
Now you're telling me that if the Suvs suddenly got 30 odd miles per gallon, we wouldn't have to dump billions into the war?

All it would take is for congress to impose a tax on gasoline to pay for any meddling in oil nations that it approves, instead of taking it from our income taxes.

I'm going to pay more for gasoline to buy oil from the middle east to fly those planes and drive those trains and boats with oil. Don't forget heating the houses and factories.? Or making the plastics?
You're saying SUVs = high petroleum imports = War. That is not true. Stand on the corner for an hour and count the white vans going by, you know, tradesmen, plumbers, electricians, etc. There's a hell of a lot of them and they are on the move all the time.

I think our world cop role would be reduced dramatically. But I'm sure we would still be the world cop to some extent. I'm only suggesting that we have a gas tax to pay for our world cop role when it is in an oil region. Other areas should be paid for with income taxes.

Since we don't get oil from Iraq that doesn't count, right? Oh, region.... well, we'd have to pay for watching Cuba since the Gulf is a oil region, right? Do you have any idea what a nightmare you're suggesting? You try to make it simple but it's not. It's terribly complex. SUVs are not the problem or the solution. Politics is both.