[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

Kids learn what they see.

From reading this story, I see in OC's son, a child who has been rejected, abandoned, discarded, shuffled around, and generally taught that he is a burden, rather than a joy and a pleasure. He has most likely seen and been a target of abuse (the man raising him did not go from a responsible, kind, loving person to an axe murderer with no stops in between). My perception is that this child has been been taught to manipulate, disrespect, and to use hostility in an attempt to control his surroundings and those he is in contact with.

First, let me state that I didn't have him for the first 7 years. I got pregnant, was forced to get married, and *I* knew I couldn't (1) cope and (2) afford to raise a child. He was given to my husband's family, in my attempt to give him a better life, and *not* pay for my mistakes.

When the indictments were made, they said I could come get him or he would go into foster care. By this time, I was married to a capable, stable, responsible man. I was fully intending on being married to this man forever. This man, who had never seen this child, came home early from TDY in Turkey, got a loan, and took me and my other son (the autistic one) who was 15 months old back to the US (we were living in England at the time) and hired an attorney to get this boy back.

Those seven years, he did not live with his bio-unit. He thought his bio-unit was his cousin, and that his great aunt and uncle were his parents. He didn't know who I was until the police brought him to me.

As it turned out, the people I trusted to raise this little boy were not a good choice. They had issues and were involved in a murder. Had I known this, OBVIOUSLY I would have taken steps to get him legally adopted via an agency or something, then this whole mess would never have happened.

No where in this story do I see where this child was nurtured, taught to reason and discuss, given stability or a healthy role model to learn from. Does anyone love him? Respect him and his choices? Teach him to respect and love himself?

From day one, he was treated with respect and love, and was loved and nurtured JUST AS MUCH as Bryan was. I told him that day (I'll never forget it) that I would never lie to him, but there would be times when I would feel like he wasn't ready for information, so I would tell him, "I'm not going to answer that". I stayed true to my word.

We had a GREAT relationship, an open relationship, to the point he was comfortable talking to me about sex and drugs. He had never been disrepectful (other than occasionally going over the top trying to be funny, but I chalked that up to him discovering and refining his sense of humor). I was NOT prepared for what happened. And it was so freakin fast....

Calling his girlfriend Ms Thang is highly disrespectful and contemptous.

I don't think so. This is how people talk where I live (where he lived). And I didn't want to use her real name, since this is a public forum.

Dismissing her due to her upbringing and background is pretty snotty and pretentious, given that none of us are perfect.

I think you're confusing Miss Thang (giver of the necklace) and Sam (the one that's pregnant). Two different girlfriends.

Miss Thang I liked. She seemed to have her head screwed on pretty straight for the most part, had a plan, and was intent on sticking to it.

Sam I don't care for. I've spoken to her on the phone twice, and both times she's come off as dumb as a brick. Her decisions have been as dumb or dumber than my more stupid ones. *HE* is the one that called her parents hicks, I merely parroted that back to him. I also mentioned that these "hicks" were kind enough to give him a home and feed him when they didn't have to. That bit never made it through.

OC has not done a very good job of making wise choices,

I have made some pretty stupid decisions, that's true. And I've paid dearly, and accepted responsibility for those decisions.

so it doesn't seem to me that she has any room to condemn another person for theirs.

Well, first, condemnation is defined as:to express an unfavorable or adverse judgment on; indicate strong disapproval of.

And as he is my son, I have absolute room to condemn him. If we're talking about Joey down the road, you're right, I don't.

And SINCE I made those mistakes, and since he KNEW about those mistakes and SAW firsthand consequences of them, I thought he would know better than to put himself in a similar position. (meaning the whole pregnancy thing.)

I think one of the main problems here is that many of you are talking about why he went to Dave's in the first place, and I'm more concerned with what happened once he got there.

Calling him Boy is depersonalizing and humiliating. He is not a piece of furniture to be dropped off at Uncle Jack's when your life has no room for him.

If I considered him as valuable as a piece of furniture, I wouldn't worry about him, or have posted any of this at all. Why would you even make that analogy??

Or discarded when you think he isn't filling YOUR needs adequately.

It's not, nor has it EVER been about him fulfilling MY needs. Please quote where I said that "he didn't fulfill my needs as a mother, so I took him to David's house."

This kid didn't ask to be brought into the world. OC made that choice. Once she made that choice, she was responsible for him. OC could have chosen to give him up for adoption, ensuring a better chance at a healthy, functional life, but no...she chose to dump him at someone's house who had no ties to him...a person with no motivation to adequately care for him and raise him lovingly and responsibly.

This is just plain wrong. It's obvious you haven't read the whole thread. Why are you making judgements against me?

I am simply amazed that he has turned out as well as he has. He must be one very tough cookie to have survived the life he has been subjected to (but did NOT deserve).

Tough, yes. He's had a hard road to hoe. He's a survivor, like I am. Probably the only thing he's running on right now.

At 18, a young man probably doesn't know all the reasons he is attracted to the things he is. OC had the perfect opportunity to bond a little and have a reasonable discussion about the origins and meaning behind the necklace, but she chose instead to attempt to control her son's choices through verbal violence and manipulation.

Man. You really have no idea what you're talking about.

I am completely unsurprised at his response. If that incident is representative of the interaction between the two of them, both are probably better off without being in each others lives. I can only hope that the legacy that this child has been given does not get passed on to the next generation.

It will. The curse works.

In case anyone is wondering where I am coming from with all this, I had a son out of wedlock, 18 years ago. His father never had anything to do with him, or me after conception. I knew that I was responsible for this human being and how his life turned out. I dropped out of college, worked two jobs for many years to support us, and gave up many personal desires and goals in order to be the very best mother that I could be. We've been through a lot together, he and I, but I'll tell you one thing...he has never doubted that I love him deeply and will always be there for him, no matter how much I disapprove of his choices. I have always treated him with dignity and respect and in return, he treats me the same. I've taken in teenagers whose families have thrown them out because they were 'uncontrollable'. Guess what? They don't need forceful control, they need respect and dignity. I give it to them and they respond in kind.

Goody?

And if my son came home wearing a gf's Wiccan necklace, I would not force him to take it off, even if it meant nothing whatsoever to him. He is 18 and I would never dream of trying to control his personal choices to such a degree.

Well my son was 17, and I was well within my rights as (1) his mother and (2) the person paying his rent/utilities/food/clothing/healcthcare/ROTC trips/uniforms/school functions/phone bills/internet bills/etc to make a REASONABLE REQUEST and expect it to be (1) immediately complied with, and if he doesn't like it, (2) have a discussion about it AFTER he complied with it.

That's how I was raised, and it's how I've raised all three of my children.

Violence breeds violence. Hostility breeds hostility. Disrespect breeds disrespect. This child learned all of that from his family of origin.

Stormie

How....cliche of you to say so. Unfortunately, as a few people have already stated, not all children raised in the same perfect household turn out bright and shiny members of society. So you ASSUME that it's my bad parenting that's caused all of this "poor boy's" problems. Nice. Are you always this judgemental and clueless or only when posting on forums?