[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Being equal means not a subject of someone else, that's all. It doesn't mean you have, or deserve, equal abilities, equal resources or equal rewards.

I can accept that definition but it still doesn't stop the argument of how far we should push for equality in other areas, equal education for example, besides being a subject of someone else. There is still debate on how far should we go for equality which still means there isn't a clear cut line.

And also, do you think you could truly be free of being controlled by someone more powerful than you in a hierarchical system? Do you think we have equality in your definition in the United States right now?

It's not unnatural at all. Since the dawn of mankind, humans have had to make an effort to survive. Hunting, gathering, making tools and seeking shelter, rewarded the best with more comfort.
Those efforts evolved into farming, manufacturing and building, but the goal was still survival, and for the best at it, the reward is more comfort.

I was talking about biologically natural, we are not born with money and we can grow it within ourselves without taking it from someone else, I should have been more specific.

When the efforts became organized, for economies of scale, barter was no longer practical, so money was used to keep track of individual efforts. That paycheck is the reward for your effort to survive, which is as natural as it comes.

This assumes that this is the only way to survive, just because we evolved a monetary system doesn't mean it is impossible to survive without this specific kind. A communal society works much differently than a individualistic one.

And the idea of the paycheck is not what I think is as so unnatural but the idea of one person gets a greater chunk than someone else is a idea that started only a few thousand years ago. People in hunter-gatherer societies didn't have one person with all the food while others starved. The fact that humans have lived both ways make the argument of a hierarchal system determining who can eat or not being natural or unnatural pointless.

There never has been, there is not now and there never will be, a classless society.

I will agree that there will never be a truly classless society but you can change it to a much different level than we have today.

It is impossible to have a "society" without organization, and organization needs leadership, so that the pigs will always be more equal than others.

You can have leadership in a classless society. If you have a company where the manager makes the same as workers you have a classless system with leadership. It is impossible to have a hierarchical free society, which does not mean class even though they are very closely related.

You have to understand what money is, how and why people get it, as well as why people want it. Stop thinking of money as something that justs exists and should be divided up. Realize it's a representation of, a reward for, skill and effort.

It is a representation of a reward for societies value of skill and effort. Just because a manager makes 50 times more than a worker does not mean the manager is 50 times more skilled or put in 50 times more effort, just that society values a manager 50 times more than a regular worker. In a communist society, the idea is that the social value of a manager and regular worker is the same therefore they should be paid the same.

Blacks and whites were not told to be equal. They were told to stop fucking with each other because of color, and there is a big difference. They were told they had an equal right to make an effort and be rewarded for it, without being restricted because of their color/race. But there is no guarantee anyone will be successful or even survive.

Thats bullshit, the idea of white supremacy is that whites are more advanced biologically than people of color so the people of color didn't have the same rights as whites. Now, it is socially accepted that whites and blacks should have the same rights.

When you understand what money really is, you'll see that's contrary to human nature and highly unlikely.

Its contrary to our western nature and is very unlikely for a western society to change to a society that will minimalize class. I am not a pro-classless society anyways, I am just against the extremity of the class society we have now.