[BigV]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Thanks V, that's an great start on a good discussion.

Sometimes, it's hard to separate the "what" from the "how",
But for me the easiest way to describe "good" government is in a short phrase:

Thanks, it is a crucial distinction to make and a difficult one, and one that is often overlooked or confused. I want to focus on the what for now, because if the what is "not at all", then the how becomes moot. Lots of discussion about our deficit and debt and projections into the future could be simplified this way. Indeed, some of the more radical discussions from the right wing of the political conversation advocate this as the main method of closing our gaps.

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

"Government does what people can't or won't do for themselves"

My interests are among those things "people won't do".
These are things like religious and civil rights for each person,
and the right to be protected from various sorts of harm.

I like this point very much. It is the compliment to PUBLIC Police. Law enforcement needs a judicial branch if we aspire to rise above vigilantes and lynchings. I'd add PUBLIC Judiciary to the list.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Interesting. I'd say i pretty much agree with that list. There's one more I'd add though: communication, power and transport infrastructures.

--snip--

What's truly depressing is all that stuff got sold off at knockdown prices, to encourage private participation (apparently: actually in order to make it easier for the governing party's friends to purchase). Garage sale prices for the nation's veins and arteries. Now we have higher prices and lesser service than in most comparable countries. The nation's coffers are regularly made to carry the cost when it goes wrong or subsidise the running of these privately owned national necessities. But the profit all goes to multi-nationals.

They bought us up with beads and blankets.

Here in the US we have private utilities, private communication infrastructure, and ... ok, we have a very different transportation infrastructure, but what we have is largely private. Transportation in a minute, the others first.

Utilities like power, water, sewer, garbage, gas, etc. these are largely private enterprises in the US, but they are subject to heavy regulation. Still, they're profitable despite the regulation. Interestingly, my city, Seattle, has a publicly owned electric utility. It works just fine.

I think this fits the qualificiations for a need that is BIG, requiring BIG to deal with it. But in lots of places here, this has succeeded as a PRIVATE venture. Let me add this. Where there is a captive consumer base, no competition and no regulation, private providers's hunger for profits will always outweigh the individual's interest. A corporations self interest is in maximizing profit and that must be paramount, or they will soon cease to exist.

PUBLIC transit is not something I think *has* to be done by the government, but I think it is in the best interest of the local populations to make PUBLIC transit available.

Originally Posted by SamIam

I too agree with most of the list.

Especially:

I think we need to go back to having a citizen's army (yes - gasp - the draft). At this point something like one half percent of all Americans have served in the volunteer army. That means that the vast majority of Americans have no stake in whatever latest foreign "democratization" process is going on. If more Americans were impacted or potentially impacted by our foreign excursions, the government would be forced to be more responsible in carrying them out and deciding if they should be carried out in the first place.

It is not the place of Halliburten et al to provide essential services for our troops. That is the government's (military's) job. I grew up an Army brat and, back in the day, the military did just fine if not better without these private outfits which have simply become instruments used by politicians to make a profit from our continual round of wars and "peace-keeping missions."

I wonder if the growth of the military industrial complex to the extent that the cooks aren't also soldiers hasn't hollowed out our armed services. It has certainly enriched the corporations that have grown these businesses. I also don't think that the army should be in the business of producing weapons. I don't have a problem with this as a PRIVATE venture, with limits and conditions, the same kinds of conditions I expect from my government in other areas, responsibility and accountability.

Originally Posted by SamIam

Education - this should be so obvious, yet many want to sharply curtail or even cease funding for education on every level - from elementary to college. An educated work force will make the US a more viable competitor in the global economy. It will also mean that citizens can make more informed choices at the polls. Knowledge is power and corporate America seems to want to make sure that the people have as little power as possible. Education should not be privatized. This will only lead to education for a select (wealthy) few.

PUBLIC EDUCATION.

There isn't an item on the list that is a more obvious No Brainer. Not to the exclusion of private schools, fine, but there must be Public Schools. I also strenuously disagree with the current trend of local school districts allowing charter schools to recieve public money thereby high grading (cherry picking) students from the local population. This is a very bad idea that exacerbates all the problems in these areas. Like that idiot in the video, don't pay your federal loans, that'll show 'em. Culling the best students, the most affluent students from the public system... yeah. That's gonna strengthen our nation.

Originally Posted by SamIam

Government should not be involved in the care and feeding of mega-corporations. What hypocrites the CEO's of these outfits are - spewing the words "free market" while behind the scenes buying government influence which ensures the market is anything but free.

It is not the place of government to contrive at the enrichment of those who "serve" in Congress. Contributions to politicians should be severely limited and corporations should not be considered "people." It probably wouldn't hurt either to have members of both the House and Senate serve for one 6 year term only.

The Constitution says that Congress should promote the GENERAL welfare - not that of special interests.

Good point. When it comes to risk a hybrid plan like PRIVATE gains and PUBLIC losses is unacceptable. See Volker act.

Originally Posted by SamIam

It is not the place of the government to legislate matters of private morality or religion. If I am a lesbian who attends a mosque and grew up in the Mormon church, it is no one's business but my own. The government has better things to do, or it should.

Here's an aspect of our society I think the government should have NO business. Marriage is a contract. We have contract law, including limits. Minors can't enter into contracts. But do we have laws that say white can't contract with black? No, because that's stupid. Do we have laws that say Jew can't contract with Gentile? No, because that's stupid. Do we have laws that says a man can't have a contract with a man? No, because that's stupid. But we have a law that says a man can't marry a man and a woman can't marry a woman. And that is also stupid.

Originally Posted by SamIam

The government's job is to preserve the Republic, not contrive at the creation of a plutocracy.

That is all.

Alarming verging on depressing. I, for one, DO NOT welcome our new Plutocratic Overlords. Screw that.

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

snip--

and also add the "corpor-ization" of prisons.

It's not the place of Halliburten-wannabees to provide essential services for inmates.
Inmates housed on private property are out of sight and out of mind, and a sure opportunity for corruption.
It's a job only the government should be doing with public oversight.

GOOD POINT, a very good point. How is it that private prisons exist anyhow? Tell me how a business (that isn't producing soylent green) can make a go of it in the prison business, AND ASTONISHINGLY, with just one customer, the government? This is definitely a job for government ONLY. PUBLIC incarceration a natural component of PUBLIC Justice.

Originally Posted by Perry Winkle

I think it would be good if we had mandatory military service like many other countries do. Aside from character building and vocational training, I think it gives everyone a good sense of being part of a nation.

The draft has a lot of things going for it, including the main point you mention. I haven't given a return to the draft much critical thought in many years though so my brains are rusty on this score.