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11-27-2002, 08:56 AM

I was beginning to have faith in Nic Name. I was beginning to think that he had the best intentions, even if he went about them in a way which I found irritating. I was calming toward him, and I was even civil when I pointed out a mistake he had made (something that I normally would have accompanied with words like "retard" and "illiterate"). But I was wrong.

Where to start?

For one thing, I can tell you that my experience with Germans (eh, Europeans, for that matter) is that they're much different from Americans and Canadians. The Atlantic Ocean isn't the only thing that separates us, nor is the language. Society is very different in Germany, and it became even more apparent to me when I spent close to two weeks with a German family.

You don't know Paul or Remco or Sibille. You've never been to their house, sat with them at dinner, stayed up until 7AM Pacific watching soccer with them. You don't know them at all, yet you act like you do.

Paul's words are hardly racist; they're not even making fun of Jews. I think anyone attempting to get the actual meaning out of his dark humor will realize that he's poking fun at Germans and Germany. Perhaps if you read over it more carefully you'll see that. That's certainly what I come away with, and I'm certain that's how he intended it.

As for whether or not Paul's family would be ashamed of him... I doubt they would be. Because thankfully, they are not like you. They understand that he is joking, and they're not so stuck on this that they would be so easily offended. You obviously have a very deep personal connection to the Holocaust. Whether it's because you're Jewish, or your parents are Holocaust survivors or what, I don't know. But you are apparently unable to look at the situation without emotion. It's obvious that this is personal to you. Maybe that's why you need to discontinue discussing it with us.

Honestly, I think Paul started making jokes like that after Jen or I put the idea in his head. One of us, upon learning that he was German, probably said something like "Oh, so you hate Jews, huh?" - jokingly, of course. And he understood that it was a joke, and that's why you see here what you do. It's all in good fun, even if you can't understand that.

I have a Jewish friend named Avi. Avi is short for Avraham, and his last name is Schwab. Avraham Schwab. One day, I said to him "So you're Jewish, huh?" He replied "Yep." And I said "I hate Jews." His response was "Me too!"

Now, I'd suppose you'd go on to say that he's racist as well for even joking around with me like that (and, of course, I'm racist, and blah blah blah). But I disagree. I think the generation gap is too big, Nic. I don't think you understand the way things work with younger people today. You grew up in your environment (where apparently dark humor was illegal) and we grew up in ours. You're much older (when's your birth year - '50? '51? I'm too lazy to find the post where you alluded to it). My dad was born in '49. He wouldn't find those jokes funny either. There is a difference in the society in which we were raised. You grew up in the 50's and 60's; we grew up in the 80's and 90's. There may only be a difference of 30 years, but those eras are worlds apart.

So really, I'm forced to draw this conclusion: You're either ignorant of the environment in which many youth today grew up or you're trolling. Neither of those is very much appreciated in an online community. I enjoy your regular posts, but perhaps you should take ones like this elsewhere.

11-27-2002, 08:56 AM	#14
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I was beginning to have faith in Nic Name. I was beginning to think that he had the best intentions, even if he went about them in a way which I found irritating. I was calming toward him, and I was even <b>civil</b> when I pointed out a mistake he had made (something that I normally would have accompanied with words like "retard" and "illiterate"). But I was wrong. Where to start? For one thing, I can tell you that my experience with Germans (eh, Europeans, for that matter) is that they're <b>much</b> different from Americans and Canadians. The Atlantic Ocean isn't the only thing that separates us, nor is the language. Society is very different in Germany, and it became even more apparent to me when I spent close to two weeks with a German family. You don't know Paul or Remco or Sibille. You've never been to their house, sat with them at dinner, stayed up until 7AM Pacific watching soccer with them. You don't know them at all, yet you act like you do. Paul's words are hardly racist; they're not even making fun of Jews. I think anyone attempting to get the actual meaning out of his dark humor will realize that he's poking fun at Germans and Germany. Perhaps if you read over it more carefully you'll see that. That's certainly what I come away with, and I'm certain that's how he intended it. As for whether or not Paul's family would be ashamed of him... I doubt they would be. Because thankfully, they are not like you. They understand that he is joking, and they're not so stuck on this that they would be so easily offended. You obviously have a very deep personal connection to the Holocaust. Whether it's because you're Jewish, or your parents are Holocaust survivors or what, I don't know. But you are apparently unable to look at the situation without emotion. It's obvious that this is <b>personal</b> to you. Maybe that's why you need to discontinue discussing it with us. Honestly, I think Paul started making jokes like that after Jen or I put the idea in his head. One of us, upon learning that he was German, probably said something like "Oh, so you hate Jews, huh?" - jokingly, of course. And he <b>understood</b> that it was a joke, and that's why you see here what you do. It's all in good fun, even if you can't understand that. I have a Jewish friend named Avi. Avi is short for Avraham, and his last name is Schwab. Avraham Schwab. One day, I said to him "So you're Jewish, huh?" He replied "Yep." And I said "I hate Jews." His response was "Me too!" Now, I'd suppose you'd go on to say that he's racist as well for even joking around with me like that (and, of course, I'm racist, and blah blah blah). But I disagree. I think the generation gap is too big, Nic. I don't think you understand the way things work with younger people today. You grew up in your environment (where apparently dark humor was illegal) and we grew up in ours. You're much older (when's your birth year - '50? '51? I'm too lazy to find the post where you alluded to it). My dad was born in '49. He wouldn't find those jokes funny either. There is a difference in the society in which we were raised. You grew up in the 50's and 60's; we grew up in the 80's and 90's. There may only be a difference of 30 years, but those eras are worlds apart. So really, I'm forced to draw this conclusion: You're either ignorant of the environment in which many youth today grew up or you're trolling. Neither of those is very much appreciated in an online community. I enjoy your regular posts, but perhaps you should take ones like this elsewhere.