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henry quirk · 08-15-2019, 11:19 AM

"First of all you can't have a minarchy without everyone on board, well 2/3rds anyway"

Sure you can. Do you even know what a minarchy is? You coulda googled it, but obviously didn't, indicatin' you really aren't interested in what I have to say, or in my view. You're just reactin' to havin' the status quo (you on the dole, Bruce?) threatened.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state

In libertarian political philosophy, a night-watchman state is a model of a state whose only functions are to provide its citizens with the military, the police, and courts, thus protecting them from aggression, theft, breach of contract, fraud, and enforcing property laws

I would add 'militia' to the functions cuz when the other three get uppity, the militia (that's 'us') get to shoot 'em in the ass with rock salt.

#

"it would have to be on land no nation claims or attempting it would be sedition."

Or: America could become an minarchy. Many folks live as though they were in a minarchy already. I do. Bettin' you don't.

#

"What case? unless CorpX violated some rule, some law, you have no case."

The rule, the law is: don't knowingly, willingly, deprive another of his life, liberty, or property. That pretty much covers any complaint you might have against Corp X, your neighbor, some stranger, etc. The standard you have to meet as accuser (the standard the accused has to beat) is right there, plain as day.

#

"So Corp X can kill 10% of the minarchy but nobody can prove it because {b}there's no government arm with the authority to dig into it[/b]."

Sure there is: the constabulary (that there is the po-po) and the courts (that there is the courts).

#

"No, democracy is best"

How would you know? If you live in America you've never lived in a democracy. No, Bruce, America is a constitutional republic. Sure, democratic process is a feature of the republic (this is called representative democracy) but strictly within the boundaries of the national and state charters/constitutions.

That is: even if everyone wants to, no one can vote for me to be sequestered away 'just because'. In a democracy the majority could vote to have me jailed ('just because'), you neutered, and tw installed as King of the Hill. It is precisely to hobble the collective, capricious, will of the people and (promote individual sovereignty) that we don't have a democracy.

#

"Been kicking the idea around for 150 years and there still isn't any. Basically it's regressive, back to the stone age."

Yeah, there's never been a true communism in the world either and that doesn't stop folks from tryin'. The best they can do is the horrid state communisms & socialisms that have killed millions. Pure communism (pretty horrid on paper, to me anyay) can't work cuz it flies in the face of human nature, so these ravenous state-run strains are the best advocates can muster.

Natural rights libertarianism, on the other hand (and the minarchy that can extend out from it) is wholly in line with what humans are, how they think, what they want, which is, of course, why certain folks oppose such things and lobby hard for strains of communism. Folks in power or who crave power can't have any real power in a minarchy, but they can loads of it in the state-communism (as they supposedly work for, but never reach, pure or true communism).

Just look to history, Bruce. Liberty always increases. We've moved from pre-historic systems where few controlled many to a place where many (as individuals) largely control themselves. the path meanders and backtracks, of course, and huge numbers of folks still labor under heel, but always, in the end, mankind moves away from kings and queens and aristocracy, away from rulers and dictators and tyrants, away from centralized governance toward individual self-direction and responsibility, toward a minimizing of control, toward a diffusing of power. America is a prime example of this. Despite (not because of) America's powerful centralized government, the average individual enjoys unprecedented freedom, not as a gift from the powerful but as birthright. That so many work overtly to reduce that individual freedom (the whole of the Democrat party, the majority of the Republican party, and a nice friggin' chunk of the Libertarian party, are three examples that come to mind) sez a lot. As I say elsewhere: they trade away autonomy to supposedly preserve autonomy. Madness.

A minarchy, foundationed on natural rights, is what lies next on the hit parade. The positve inertia is at work. it can be delayed by not denied. Individuals want to be free.

As for being regressive: that you think being free is regressive sez alot about you, Bruce.

I guess bein' controlled, under heel & thumb (bein' 'safe' is how it's marketed) is 'progressvie', yeah?

08-15-2019, 11:19 AM	#1897
henry quirk maskless: yesterday, today, tomorrow Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,162	"First of all you can't have a minarchy without everyone on board, well 2/3rds anyway" Sure you can. Do you even know what a minarchy is? You coulda googled it, but obviously didn't, indicatin' you really aren't interested in what I have to say, or in my view. You're just reactin' to havin' the status quo (you on the dole, Bruce?) threatened. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state In libertarian political philosophy, a night-watchman state is a model of a state whose only functions are to provide its citizens with the military, the police, and courts, thus protecting them from aggression, theft, breach of contract, fraud, and enforcing property laws I would add 'militia' to the functions cuz when the other three get uppity, the militia (that's 'us') get to shoot 'em in the ass with rock salt. # "it would have to be on land no nation claims or attempting it would be sedition." Or: America could become an minarchy. Many folks live as though they were in a minarchy already. I do. Bettin' you don't. # "What case? unless CorpX violated some rule, some law, you have no case." The rule, the law is: don't knowingly, willingly, deprive another of his life, liberty, or property. That pretty much covers any complaint you might have against Corp X, your neighbor, some stranger, etc. The standard you have to meet as accuser (the standard the accused has to beat) is right there, plain as day. # "So Corp X can kill 10% of the minarchy but nobody can prove it because {b}there's no government arm with the authority to dig into it[/b]." Sure there is: the constabulary (that there is the po-po) and the courts (that there is the courts). # "No, democracy is best" How would you know? If you live in America you've never lived in a democracy. No, Bruce, America is a constitutional republic. Sure, democratic process is a feature of the republic (this is called representative democracy) but strictly within the boundaries of the national and state charters/constitutions. That is: even if everyone wants to, no one can vote for me to be sequestered away 'just because'. In a democracy the majority could vote to have me jailed ('just because'), you neutered, and tw installed as King of the Hill. It is precisely to hobble the collective, capricious, will of the people and (promote individual sovereignty) that we don't have a democracy. # "Been kicking the idea around for 150 years and there still isn't any. Basically it's regressive, back to the stone age." Yeah, there's never been a true communism in the world either and that doesn't stop folks from tryin'. The best they can do is the horrid state communisms & socialisms that have killed millions. Pure communism (pretty horrid on paper, to me anyay) can't work cuz it flies in the face of human nature, so these ravenous state-run strains are the best advocates can muster. Natural rights libertarianism, on the other hand (and the minarchy that can extend out from it) is wholly in line with what humans are, how they think, what they want, which is, of course, why certain folks oppose such things and lobby hard for strains of communism. Folks in power or who crave power can't have any real power in a minarchy, but they can loads of it in the state-communism (as they supposedly work for, but never reach, pure or true communism). Just look to history, Bruce. Liberty always increases. We've moved from pre-historic systems where few controlled many to a place where many (as individuals) largely control themselves. the path meanders and backtracks, of course, and huge numbers of folks still labor under heel, but always, in the end, mankind moves away from kings and queens and aristocracy, away from rulers and dictators and tyrants, away from centralized governance toward individual self-direction and responsibility, toward a minimizing of control, toward a diffusing of power. America is a prime example of this. Despite (not because of) America's powerful centralized government, the average individual enjoys unprecedented freedom, not as a gift from the powerful but as birthright. That so many work overtly to reduce that individual freedom (the whole of the Democrat party, the majority of the Republican party, and a nice friggin' chunk of the Libertarian party, are three examples that come to mind) sez a lot. As I say elsewhere: they trade away autonomy to supposedly preserve autonomy. Madness. A minarchy, foundationed on natural rights, is what lies next on the hit parade. The positve inertia is at work. it can be delayed by not denied. Individuals want to be free. As for being regressive: that you think being free is regressive sez alot about you, Bruce. I guess bein' controlled, under heel & thumb (bein' 'safe' is how it's marketed) is 'progressvie', yeah? __________________ like the other guy sez: 'not really back, blah-blah-blah...' Last edited by henry quirk; 08-15-2019 at 11:45 AM.