[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

I am quite serious, we're going to get sucked into this thing.

Maybe. For similar reasons, we were drawn into WWII. And that was also good. By waiting for three fundamental principles, then we were drawn into a war that everyone begged us to join, forcing all to accept new principles, with domestic attitudes that made defeat impossible, with world wide situations that made it inevitable that we would win, and with resulting phase four planning, economic realities, and civilian educations that fundamentally changed the world to benefit most all.

Vietnam was America's first military defeat because we jumped into a war in violation of all three principles. Because big dics such as Nixon, LeMay, and Westmoreland even lied to get us into that war or to make it worse. Iraq has been nothing but a disaster for similar reasons. In both cases, all three necessary principles did not exist.

Situation must become so bad that all regional 'powers that be' have first done everything possible to solve it. They must first have a necessary attitude to take on what is *their* responsibility. And that even means Israel. Only then does America have any business being involved. Involvement that then means support from almost every other world nation. Situation must first get that bad.

Why was Desert Storm such a resounding military success? Almost every world nation participated with direct support of all types. America did not even pay for that war; the rest of the world did. Even explains no serious, resulting recession. Japan paid the most. America paid almost nothing because all three principles clearly existed before deployment.

Virtually every European nation was fully involved in directly assisting and expediting American troop deployments. Even Russia and China provided assistance. Even S American countries were actively spying for the liberation of Kuwait.

Yes we may be drawn into a war. It might happen. As it did in the Balkans. That will be a disaster (economic, political, and military) if we do not wait for all others to first decide to get off their ass, suffer losses, and then decide THEY have a problem. And again, that even means Israel must replace their wacko extremist, self serving, and destructive attitude with a responsible one.

ISIS is a rather good thing. For it changes everything. Like Hitler, it forces the 'powers that be' to take responsibility. To face economic, political, and military obligations. To work cooperatively. It even forced an end to colonialism. If the 'powers that be' wake up and become responsible, then harm that ISIS does to those nations can result in changes similar to what finally happened in Europe after WWII.

Many see fear and hype due to extremist (ie Limbaugh cheapshot) rhetoric. I see a necessary and probably inevitable crisis that can finally force the region to make necessary changes. But first we must let it become so tragic that most every civilian in every adjacent nation feels severe pain. Currently, pain is only superficial. Only then will the region accept necessary changes. Only then would all be ready for American assistance. Only then can this region maybe even fix itself without American involvement.

A region cannot be fixed until pain is massive; such as death rates of 10% of their populations. Unfortunately, because so many adults only think as children (only accept reality when it affects them emotionally), then this situation must get that bad before it can get better. Europeans had to learn same from WWI and WWII. America had to massacre so many uselessly in its Civil War. Because so many adults cannot logically see a bigger picture. Many adults never learn or even deny three fundamental principles necessary to justify war. Most adults unfortunately learn from resulting emotions - like children. Things must get that bad before so many adults finally are willing to accept change.

All in that region must learn that religion and secular life are completely separate. Even tolerance is a lesson still not found even in Israel. So many have not not learned even simple lessons of Khalil Gibran. Major disasters must happen before the region finally learns what could have been learned logically as adults; thereby avoiding so much destruction.

Yes I see ISIS as a potentially good thing for reasons that Nazism was so good for Europe. And I see only good things for America IF we stay out until three fundamental principles first exist. Then we are least likely to be drawn in until after 'powers that be' decide to change for the better. Only then can good things happen maybe even without American deployment. Situation in that region has not yet become bad. Despite so much wacko fear in the press that hypes an extremist (Cheney type) agenda that loves war. It just not that bad yet. Too few have died.