Seems somebody at the Miami Herald wants you dead

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

You keep trying to conflate "gun related deaths" with violent crime against innocents.

How many of your "gun related deaths" are two drug dealers shooting at each other over money or territory? Who won't be deterred because "guns are illegal" any more than they are by "drugs are illegal"?

For instance, 34 of 46 (74%) registered school shootings all over the world between 1996 and 2005 happened in the US. And the 3 last ones weren´t even included. This gives an indication already.

The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

American kids are nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day.

You want us to believe that all these kids are drugs criminals?

PS I see MaggieL´s fetish with Occam´s Razor is almost equals to TW´s thingie with Rush Limbaugh...

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

You want us to believe that all these kids are drugs criminals?

Perhaps not all. But certainly most of them. They're not getting shot for their lunch money. Ever been in an urban US public school?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

American kids are nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

How exactly are you adding rates to get these "combined" numbers?

Please source your statistics (and "The Brady Campaign" isn't a source). I'd like to see percapita numbers, not relative rates. (Especially if you think they can be validly "combined".)

For example, in 2001 there were 21 accidental fireams deaths for US children under 15, compared with 2,100 drownings.

Go read the Gun Facts book; all their stats are sourced. Free download from http://www.gunfacts.info

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

...(and "The Brady Campaign" isn't a source)...
Go read the Gun Facts book...

The Gunfacts Book isn't a source...

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

The Gunfacts Book isn't a source...

No, it's a compendium. It cites its sources.

[Clodfobble]

I'm curious which 25 industrialized countries we're discussing as well.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Couple of points;

I think you'll find the majority of firearm deaths in this country take place in urban (low gun density per capita) rather than rural (High gun density)locations.

More shootings than the other industrialized nations? Well, we do have 300,000,000 people here.

Those 115,000 guns brought to school, (not to mention other weapons) are to convince the predators they are not prey. I'm not supporting the idea just explaining.

Saddam passed out AK-47s, when? Baghdad violence increasing, when? Non Sequitur.

If UG keeps posting, I may have to change positions.

[Flint]

I reject your source and replace it with my own!

[Hippikos]

Please source your statistics (and "The Brady Campaign" isn't a source). I'd like to see percapita numbers, not relative rates. (Especially if you think they can be validly "combined".)

You want sources?

School Safety

* Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001)
* In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)
* Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998)
* The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day. (NSBA, 1993)

Children and Gun Violence

* America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)
* In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund)
* The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

America and Gun Violence

* Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
* The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
* American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

You want sources?

I guess they don't teach proper citiation forms in your oh, so "civilized" land.

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

I guess they don't teach proper citiation forms in your oh, so "civilized" land.

These ain't no proper citations? Or does it not fit your world view?

You asked for hard facts and sources, you got it.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

These ain't no proper citations? Or does it not fit your world view?

A proper citation enables an interested reader to examine the original study to read how it was conducted and the logic behind its conclusions. "AMA 1974" is approximately as useful as "I live in New York and my name is Smith, look it up in the phone book".

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

A proper citation enables an interested reader to examine the original study to read how it was conducted and the logic behind its conclusions. "AMA 1974" is approximately as useful as "I live in New York and my name is Smith, look it up in the phone book".

You mean a link like this, that you posted, presumably so that we could READ THE LAWS? Which says

The complete Pennsylvania Statutes are not yet available on the web. However, selected portions have been made available and can be accessed by CLICKING HERE. These statutes, though available instantaneously over the web, may not be the current law. Court decisions overturning them, later statutes amending them, and a host of other factors come into play when interpreting them. They are provided here as a resource. They should provide some information about the state of the law. However, a competent lawyer, who from other sources will research the law to insure what is current, should always be employed in matters of importance.

And if you CLICK HERE (above)
you get

PENNSYLVANIA CONSOLIDATED STATUTES
UNCONSOLIDATED PENNSYLVANIA STATUTES

Which, in essence is a list of all the laws of Pennsylvania. So much for reading the laws concerning hanguns, MaggieL. Check your links and sources before you post them.

[Spexxvet]

Thank you, Hip

[Hippikos]

Saddam passed out AK-47s, when? Baghdad violence increasing, when? Non Sequitur.

Next time you want to know whether the users were left- or right handed, whether they had long or short hair, had eye defects, or other red herrings.

But, to answer your question this time, I consider our country Holland as an industrialised country with a population of 16 Mio. Gun related death (inc.suicide) 2001: 47, 2002: 38, 2003: 28. Since you want to know the source of everything: www.iva.nl/forceDL.php?filename=pubPDF1405.pdf

This means in average 37 gun related death a year = 0,10/daily. In the US there are 80 death related to gun violence.

US has 18,75 times more population than Holland, so in Dutch relations, you should have 1,875 gun related death daily.