Osama Bin Laden is Dead!!!

[Uday]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

Speaking personally, as a Republican, I think that the fewer people who knew about this operation, the better. Too many cooks spoil the broth as it were.

The biggest controversy I've heard about the whole thing was what Rep. Peter King said. That was that some of the information that got the ball rolling toward the courier who eventually led us to bin Laden was obtained from waterboarding terror suspects (KSM in particular). I will go on record as saying I have absolutely no problem with "enhanced interrogation techniques" when it comes to these types of people. It's quite a bit less lethal than their technique of beheading.

If that is what you want your country to be, far be it from me to get in the way.

[dmg1969]

Originally Posted by Uday

If that is what you want your country to be, far be it from me to get in the way.

What I WANT is the ability to use unconventional methods to break these people and have them give up information which can potentially save thousands of lives!

I don't consider the techniques that I have heard used (making someone stand for many hours at a time, sleep deprivation or threatening their families with death) torture in the classic sense. And while waterboarding (simulated drowning) may be terrifying to the person on the receiving end, these methods are designed to not cause permanent physical injury. These methods are MAINLY psychological in nature.

Are you saying that you would be against these methods being used if they stopped another 9-11 here or in another country?

[Uday]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

What I WANT is the ability to use unconventional methods to break these people and have them give up information which can potentially save thousands of lives!

I don't consider the techniques that I have heard used (making someone stand for many hours at a time, sleep deprivation or threatening their families with death) torture in the classic sense. And while waterboarding (simulated drowning) may be terrifying to the person on the receiving end, these methods are designed to not cause permanent physical injury. These methods are MAINLY psychological in nature.

Are you saying that you would be against these methods being used if they stopped another 9-11 here or in another country?

Yes. Torture is inexcusable. Any civilization that would tolerate it is unworthy of the name. There are some prices for safety that are simply too high...Not because of what torture does to your enemy, but because of what it does to you.

It is impossible to both torture and to be the "good guy". You have to choose.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Uday

It is impossible to both torture and to be the "good guy". You have to choose.

Some of us disagree with that on a theoretical level. Unfortunately most of us don't trust our government or "deciders" any further than we can throw them so... guess we're all screwed.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Some of us disagree with that on a theoretical level. Unfortunately most of us don't trust our government or "deciders" any further than we can throw them so... guess we're all screwed.

You forfeit the privilage to complain when our citizens are tortured up to and including the "theoretical level" of torture that you choose to be acceptable for our enemy. If you think waterboarding an AQ operative is acceptable, you can't complain when dmg's mom or General Petraeus is waterboarded.

[dmg1969]

Let me, once again, remind you of what happens when radical Islamists are finished interrogating you...



Waterboarding and sleep deprivation don't seem so bad now, do they?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

Let me, once again, remind you of what happens when radical Islamists are finished interrogating you...



Waterboarding and sleep deprivation don't seem so bad now, do they?

When you compare it to what the dredges of humanity do, hacking off hands and feet don't seem so bad, either, now do they?

We're supposed to be the good guys. We're not supposed to torture. That's what makes the bad guys bad.

[Uday]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

Let me, once again, remind you of what happens when radical Islamists are finished interrogating you...



Waterboarding and sleep deprivation don't seem so bad now, do they?

Yes. The bad actions of fanatics do not excuse anyone else's bad actions. Also, are you certain you wish to base your moral code by relating it to the actions of criminals?

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Uday

Yes. Torture is inexcusable. Any civilization that would tolerate it is unworthy of the name. There are some prices for safety that are simply too high...Not because of what torture does to your enemy, but because of what it does to you.

It is impossible to both torture and to be the "good guy". You have to choose.

Well said.