Iraq by the Numbers - or how to be dumb.

tw · 01-11-2007, 06:25 PM

"Mission Accomplished" was a mistake for longer than the US was in World War II. George Jr even admits that on 10 Jan 2007. Suddenly a president gets smart? Bull. "Mission Accomplished" must be ongoing after 2008 - George Jr's legacy then is protected while the death rate of American troops increases. Generals say dead soldiers per month will be higher in 2007 to accomplish this George Jr plan.

Intelligent people, instead, do the numbers. New York City - a population of 8 million - has a police force of 37,000. That's one cop for every 220 people in a town that is peaceful. Baghdad population is 7 million. That means 32,000 soldiers if the city was peaceful. But Baghdad is not peaceful. Military numbers are well defined. 40,000 soldiers for every one million people. That means 280,000 soldiers just for Baghdad. Look at that number: 280K required just for Baghdad. No wonder no General wanted Central Command - so they had to find an Admiral.

George Jr will *surge* a solution by putting 30,000 soldiers in Baghdad. He does this because even in the Cellar, nobody did the numbers. The numbers are that damning.

More numbers. Military experts say that we should see results in 18 month to two years from now. What is more important? American lives? Wealth of the nation? The troops? NO. Legacy of George Jr is only important.

Even New York City has better protection - a city not at war has more police!

Ok. Iraqi army that has been in training since 2004 and that cannot field a single independent battalion 3 years later will miraculously take control of 'liberated' regions? He believes you are that stupid; will not do simple arithmetic. Iraq is in civil war. Ethnic cleansing is ongoing. The Iraqi army is so ethnically structured that even every other battalion cannot be deployed outside their home town areas. Even the Iraqi army does not stop the violence.

An aggressive and only possible solution to Iraq is the Iraq Study Group. Problems in Iraq are numerous; more than street security. But again George Jr knows you are that dumb. Where does George Jr even discuss those other 'Iraq Study Group' defined problems? He does not. He must keep you ignorant and speechless.

George Jr knows the dumb do not do numbers. 40,000 soldiers per one million people means Baghdad needs 280,000 soldiers. But a trivial 30,000 means "Mission Accomplished" keeps going - to be lost by another president.

Those numbers are damning. Those numbers say the war will not be lost by the scumbag president - who knows you are so dumb as to not do those numbers. Do you support that mental midget by ignoring the numbers? Or do you talk about those numbers every day?

Simple. George Jr knows you will be dumb: ignore those numbers. Legacy of George Jr is more important.

piercehawkeye45 · 01-11-2007, 06:35 PM

People will assume that it is enough. If they did bring 300,000 troops the entire country would be outraged and say that they overkilling the situation.

To keep it fair, did you count the Iraqi police numbers tw?

JayMcGee · 01-11-2007, 06:46 PM

Though I support you both on the stance you take against Bush & the war in Iraq, your figures reflect only the American excperience. Most European cities do with far less than that civilian to police ratio, and your assumptions re the army to populace ratio is also flawed in that it is based on forcible subjugation of a hostile population (though, tbh, the US tactics are indeed creating a hostile population) rather than the force and intelligence needed to weed out the hostile portions of the population.

tw · 01-11-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

...your assumptions re the army to populace ratio is also flawed in that it is based on forcible subjugation of a hostile population (though, tbh, the US tactics are indeed creating a hostile population) rather than the force and intelligence needed to weed out the hostile portions of the population.

40,000 soldiers per one million people are military numbers for Baghdad. That is what the military says was necessary. That was also numbers necessary in Bosnia. 40,000 soldiers per one million population are what the military said was necessary when George Jr (acutally Rumsfeld) refused to provide sufficient troops.

Provide too few troops and of course it will take 18 to 24 months to see results. Objective? Don't lose "Mission Accomplished" under George Jr's watch - which is exactly what Nixon also did.

JayMcGee · 01-11-2007, 07:28 PM

"That is what the military says was necessary"

to do what?

Ibby · 01-11-2007, 07:31 PM

I'm not sure the iraqi police can be counted, piercehawkeye45, cause we have no way to know (and therefore quantify) which are loyal cops and which are more loyal to their 'side' in the civil wa... er, i mean, sectarian violence.

tw · 01-11-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

"That is what the military says was necessary"
to do what?

To cause the destruction of America. What do you think they were saying? Come on Jay.
Don't act dumb like George Jr needs all Americans to be. Why do you think the military says they need and needed 40,000 soldiers per one million people in Iraq? So they can enrich Halliburton?

JayMcGee · 01-11-2007, 07:39 PM

sorry, the irony escapes me.......

TW, I agree with your overall stance though your words do confuse me from time to time.

tw · 01-11-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

sorry, the irony escapes me.......

What irony? Those simple numbers - arithmetic - are ironic? Ballpark numbers were even provided last Aug 2006 in the Holbrook / Kristol interview on Charlie Rose at Bush links Hezbollah to Ali-Q.

George Jr has Americans believe 30,000 troops in a surge will do what the military says needs hundreds of thousands. Even the NYC police department puts more armed officiers on the streets.

The mental midget hopes each Americans is so dumb to not do simple arithmetic. George Jr's legacy is at stake.

Ibby · 01-11-2007, 08:08 PM

Tw's annoyingly right again, a troop surge IS what is needed to win, but not what Bush is sending. The solution is either outrage the country further, send hundreds of thousands, and piss EVERYONE off, or pull out and only piss a few off.

tw · 01-11-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

Tw's annoyingly right again, a troop surge IS what is needed to win, but not what Bush is sending.

No adult should ever care what is and is not annoying. Only the facts are important. Facts are in those numbers. The president believes us to be so dumb as to not do the numbers. Even the New York City police force is about 37,000. But only 30,000 troops (in a city where even 1/3rd of the police are believed to be insurgents) will somehow bring security to Baghdad? It is an annoying reality. He does not care about American soldier’s lives. A statement of fact from the Generals. This strategy means even higher American fatalities. But since it will take 18 month to two years, then the legacy of a mental midget president is safe. He actually believes you are that dumb. Based upon responses, both here and on the streets; George Jr apparently is correct. Americans will not even do simple arithmetic.

How much contempt does the American public really have for the troops? He can waste soldier’s lives - and so many are silent? Who really is annoying? The one who lies to even kill American soldiers - or the one who has been identifying the mental midget, bluntly, for years?

I am appalled that a scumbag president thinks nothing of killing Americans soldiers only to protect his legacy.

Happy Monkey · 01-11-2007, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

a troop surge ... but not what Bush is sending.

No kidding. We're "surging" to what troop levels were a couple of years ago.

Ibby · 01-12-2007, 01:15 AM

quick, tw, fix your spelling of appalled before UG sees! remember, bad spelling makes you a commie!

yesman065 · 01-12-2007, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

But since it will take 18 month to two years, then the legacy of a mental midget president is safe. He actually believes you are that dumb. I am appalled that a scumbag president thinks nothing of killing Americans soldiers only to protect his legacy.

Uh, not to ruin your party or anything, because much of what you say has merit, but it is a very different world today than it was during the Nixon administration and every American will know instantly that this situation, for good or bad, lies with George W. and his legacy. Especially with people like you keeping it in our face everyday. You are not the only one tw. To your credit, there are many like you who constantly expound on your beliefs and rationals. You constantly put the information you have out there.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-12-2007, 06:16 PM

The Cellar is far from the "general public", yesman. I find the number of people that don't have a clue, astounding. And the number that know they don't know, and don't care, appalling.

01-11-2007, 06:25 PM	#1
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Iraq by the Numbers - or how to be dumb. "Mission Accomplished" was a mistake for longer than the US was in World War II. George Jr even admits that on 10 Jan 2007. Suddenly a president gets smart? Bull. "Mission Accomplished" must be ongoing after 2008 - George Jr's legacy then is protected while the death rate of American troops increases. Generals say dead soldiers per month will be higher in 2007 to accomplish this George Jr plan. Intelligent people, instead, do the numbers. New York City - a population of 8 million - has a police force of 37,000. That's one cop for every 220 people in a town that is peaceful. Baghdad population is 7 million. That means 32,000 soldiers if the city was peaceful. But Baghdad is not peaceful. Military numbers are well defined. 40,000 soldiers for every one million people. That means 280,000 soldiers just for Baghdad. Look at that number: 280K required just for Baghdad. No wonder no General wanted Central Command - so they had to find an Admiral. George Jr will surge a solution by putting 30,000 soldiers in Baghdad. He does this because even in the Cellar, nobody did the numbers. The numbers are that damning. More numbers. Military experts say that we should see results in 18 month to two years from now. What is more important? American lives? Wealth of the nation? The troops? NO. Legacy of George Jr is only important. Even New York City has better protection - a city not at war has more police! Ok. Iraqi army that has been in training since 2004 and that cannot field a single independent battalion 3 years later will miraculously take control of 'liberated' regions? He believes you are that stupid; will not do simple arithmetic. Iraq is in civil war. Ethnic cleansing is ongoing. The Iraqi army is so ethnically structured that even every other battalion cannot be deployed outside their home town areas. Even the Iraqi army does not stop the violence. An aggressive and only possible solution to Iraq is the Iraq Study Group. Problems in Iraq are numerous; more than street security. But again George Jr knows you are that dumb. Where does George Jr even discuss those other 'Iraq Study Group' defined problems? He does not. He must keep you ignorant and speechless. George Jr knows the dumb do not do numbers. 40,000 soldiers per one million people means Baghdad needs 280,000 soldiers. But a trivial 30,000 means "Mission Accomplished" keeps going - to be lost by another president. Those numbers are damning. Those numbers say the war will not be lost by the scumbag president - who knows you are so dumb as to not do those numbers. Do you support that mental midget by ignoring the numbers? Or do you talk about those numbers every day? Simple. George Jr knows you will be dumb: ignore those numbers. Legacy of George Jr is more important. Last edited by tw; 01-11-2007 at 06:39 PM.

01-11-2007, 06:46 PM	#3
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	Though I support you both on the stance you take against Bush & the war in Iraq, your figures reflect only the American excperience. Most European cities do with far less than that civilian to police ratio, and your assumptions re the army to populace ratio is also flawed in that it is based on forcible subjugation of a hostile population (though, tbh, the US tactics are indeed creating a hostile population) rather than the force and intelligence needed to weed out the hostile portions of the population. __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

01-11-2007, 07:28 PM	#5
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	"That is what the military says was necessary" to do what? __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

01-11-2007, 07:31 PM	#6
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	I'm not sure the iraqi police can be counted, piercehawkeye45, cause we have no way to know (and therefore quantify) which are loyal cops and which are more loyal to their 'side' in the civil wa... er, i mean, sectarian violence. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

01-11-2007, 07:39 PM	#8
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	sorry, the irony escapes me....... TW, I agree with your overall stance though your words do confuse me from time to time. __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

01-11-2007, 06:35 PM	#2
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	People will assume that it is enough. If they did bring 300,000 troops the entire country would be outraged and say that they overkilling the situation. To keep it fair, did you count the Iraqi police numbers tw?

01-11-2007, 08:08 PM	#10
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Tw's annoyingly right again, a troop surge IS what is needed to win, but not what Bush is sending. The solution is either outrage the country further, send hundreds of thousands, and piss EVERYONE off, or pull out and only piss a few off. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

01-12-2007, 01:15 AM	#13
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	quick, tw, fix your spelling of appalled before UG sees! remember, bad spelling makes you a commie! __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

01-12-2007, 06:16 PM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The Cellar is far from the "general public", yesman. I find the number of people that don't have a clue, astounding. And the number that know they don't know, and don't care, appalling. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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