Is he cripplingly shy, or gay?

hot_pastrami · 06-04-2003, 10:58 AM

Another thread on a similar subject made me think to post this. I have a very good friend, let's call him Dwight, who I've known for a little over three years. The two of us have been splitting apartments for the past two and a half years, and we would probably have continued to do so well into the future, except that I've bought a house and moved in with my fiancée.

Dwight is a nice Book-of-Mormon-thumping went-on-a-mission-and-made-mom-and-dad-proud go-to-church-every-Sunday Mormon. I try not to hold that against him, though, as it's pretty damn common here in Utah. He's good looking, has a sense of humor, he's responsible, loves kids... many of the things that would make him attractive to women. But he doesn't date, and does a pretty convincing job of making it look like he's too shy to talk to girls... but here's why I think it's more than that:

1. He's 29 years old.
2. He's a virgin.
3. He's had ONE girlfriend. EVER. And it's a girl who was a complete headcase, which he "stole" from me. They dated about three months before he broke it off.
4. Aside from the girlfriend, he's been on about four other dates with girls IN HIS WHOLE LIFE.
5. On two occasions, I arranged dates for him with nice, attractive girls which he claimed to be interested in, and he never followed through on either of the dates.
6. He talks about wanting companionship, but does nothing about it.
7. He has a number of mild mannerisms one often sees in homosexual people... the stance, a way of talking, the clothes he wears, etc.
8. When the subject of homosexuality comes up, he goes to great lengths to make sure everyone in the room is aware that he is heterosexual... even though nobody was suggesting otherwise.

I personally think that he's gay, but so deeply Mormon that he won't even admit it to himself. Even if he did, he would never come out in the open about it, because it would break his parents' hearts. He's a good friend, and if he did come out of the closet, I'd be happy to help him to find a man... I just dont want him to live a lonely and unrewarding life.

Has anybody else had a friend like mine? Were you able to help them find direction at all? Any suggestions?

Griff · 06-04-2003, 11:26 AM

A friend of mines name came up in a conversation with someone who I didn't know knew him. I was gonna clean that sentance up but I kinda like it Anyway, She inquires "Can I ask you a question?" To which I reply, "I don't know, nobody knows." He prolly doesn't know himself. He doesn't know himself. I have no idea if there is anything helpful that can be done. He used to date and had one serious relationship a few years back but I don't think he's seen a woman since her. It could very well be he got his heart broken, but that seed of doubt is there. I know a married father of four who falls into a similar category, although he and his wife seem fine. I'll post in a decade or so if the rest of the story plays out.

warch · 06-04-2003, 11:50 AM

Well, I would curb the matchmaking urge and just make sure he knows youre his solid friend. Sounds to me like a relationship with either gender isnt his main problem or magic solution. A girlfriend or boyfriend cant fix it. He's got to solve it, there maybe lots of reasons why hes not coupled up, and single can be just fine. I'd watch for signs of depression, and offer the support you can.

juju · 06-04-2003, 12:50 PM

Yeah, it really sucks, and I guess there really are a lot of people who are like this. Religion is supposed to help people. How come more often than not it just ends up suffocating them?

Odd_Bloke · 06-04-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
Religion is supposed to help people. How come more often than not it just ends up suffocating them?

That's because most religion, especially Christianity (with it's many different brands), is a pile of crap. Beliefs that are totally unecessary are forced upon people and the original message of the religion (Christ dying to save them from their sins) gets over-run by commandments, priests and rituals.

NB. I am Christian.

juju · 06-04-2003, 01:52 PM

You're a Christian, but you think it's all a pile of crap? Explain?

Odd_Bloke · 06-04-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Odd_Bloke
That's because most religion... is a pile of crap.

Most religion, including CHristianity (that is to say, most Christianity) is a load of crap. The fiath is what is important, not how you worship etc.

hot_pastrami · 06-04-2003, 01:59 PM

Mormonism is particularly suffocating. I was an active member of the Mormon church until I was old enough to make up my own mind about it, which was about age twelve. My mother still tried to make me go for a couple years, but thankfully she realized that I wasn't avoiding church because it was boring or because I didn't like getting all dolled up every Sunday, but because church just wasn't for me.

The Mormons excommunicate anyone who openly admits to being homosexual. That's just the paperwork though, the real problem for gays here is the Mormon density... using data from the last census, a local paper showed that about 88% of residents in Utah County here are LDS (tried to find a link to the story, but I can't find one). About 60% desity in the whole state, but Utah County is Mormon HQ. Mormons do not tolerate homosexuals... they don't speak to them, help them out when they need something, or let their kids near them.

So it is not surprsing that a lot of gay men here don't come out of the closet until after their tenth wedding anniversary. Being gay just isn't allowed, and anyone who chooses otherwise is shunned. Sad but true.

Oh, and in case anybody was wondering, I'm straight.

hot_pastrami · 06-04-2003, 02:02 PM

....on a related note, I read that Utah has the highest percentage of Prozac perscriptions per capita of all the US states. Hmm.

I found an archived copy on Geocities

juju · 06-04-2003, 02:05 PM

Hey, isn't it neat how everything comes together?

windhund · 06-04-2003, 03:34 PM

My cousin's life closely resembles your friend's. We believe he has had a couple of serious relationships with men, but he's never come out of the closet (he's not Mormon though). We finally got as much confirmation as we'll probably ever get that he is gay about 10 years ago when his "roommate" of 5 or so years suddenly moved out and he had a nervous breakdown as a result. There was clearly more going on there than just a house-sharing arrangement.

My aunt kept hoping that he'd get married for the first 40 or so years of his life and then just gave up mentioning it.

I don't know that you can do anything about people who are in such serious denial, other than be there to offer support if and when they need it.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-04-2003, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Well, I would curb the matchmaking urge and just make sure he knows youre his solid friend. Sounds to me like a relationship with either gender isnt his main problem or magic solution. A girlfriend or boyfriend cant fix it. He's got to solve it, there maybe lots of reasons why hes not coupled up, and single can be just fine. I'd watch for signs of depression, and offer the support you can.

Yeah! What she said.

Uryoces · 06-04-2003, 08:16 PM

Christianity should be joyful and hippy-like, but somewhere along the line control was added. That happens in any large organization given a long enough time-frame.

Yes, most definitely be a friend. My friendship kept a friend from committing suicide once. I wasn't there, which was all that much scarier, but he remembered me saying that if he moved to LA, I'd miss him and it would get boring. It was an innocent enough remark, but I meant it, and he didn't carry through.

juju · 06-04-2003, 08:19 PM

Wow, that's fucked up. It's funny how the smallest thing can change (or save) someone's life.

elSicomoro · 06-04-2003, 08:29 PM

Alan, it's possible that your friend could be gay, but it's also possible that he's just incredibly picky. And maybe he stresses his orientation to others b/c he's heard enough people wondering if he's gay.

But warch said it best...he's gotta deal with it. Just be a good friend.

06-04-2003, 10:58 AM	#1
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	Is he cripplingly shy, or gay? Another thread on a similar subject made me think to post this. I have a very good friend, let's call him Dwight, who I've known for a little over three years. The two of us have been splitting apartments for the past two and a half years, and we would probably have continued to do so well into the future, except that I've bought a house and moved in with my fiancée. Dwight is a nice Book-of-Mormon-thumping went-on-a-mission-and-made-mom-and-dad-proud go-to-church-every-Sunday Mormon. I try not to hold that against him, though, as it's pretty damn common here in Utah. He's good looking, has a sense of humor, he's responsible, loves kids... many of the things that would make him attractive to women. But he doesn't date, and does a pretty convincing job of making it look like he's too shy to talk to girls... but here's why I think it's more than that: 1. He's 29 years old. 2. He's a virgin. 3. He's had ONE girlfriend. EVER. And it's a girl who was a complete headcase, which he "stole" from me. They dated about three months before he broke it off. 4. Aside from the girlfriend, he's been on about four other dates with girls IN HIS WHOLE LIFE. 5. On two occasions, I arranged dates for him with nice, attractive girls which he claimed to be interested in, and he never followed through on either of the dates. 6. He talks about wanting companionship, but does nothing about it. 7. He has a number of mild mannerisms one often sees in homosexual people... the stance, a way of talking, the clothes he wears, etc. 8. When the subject of homosexuality comes up, he goes to great lengths to make sure everyone in the room is aware that he is heterosexual... even though nobody was suggesting otherwise. I personally think that he's gay, but so deeply Mormon that he won't even admit it to himself. Even if he did, he would never come out in the open about it, because it would break his parents' hearts. He's a good friend, and if he did come out of the closet, I'd be happy to help him to find a man... I just dont want him to live a lonely and unrewarding life. Has anybody else had a friend like mine? Were you able to help them find direction at all? Any suggestions? __________________ Hot Pastrami!

06-04-2003, 11:26 AM	#2
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	A friend of mines name came up in a conversation with someone who I didn't know knew him. I was gonna clean that sentance up but I kinda like it Anyway, She inquires "Can I ask you a question?" To which I reply, "I don't know, nobody knows." He prolly doesn't know himself. He doesn't know himself. I have no idea if there is anything helpful that can be done. He used to date and had one serious relationship a few years back but I don't think he's seen a woman since her. It could very well be he got his heart broken, but that seed of doubt is there. I know a married father of four who falls into a similar category, although he and his wife seem fine. I'll post in a decade or so if the rest of the story plays out. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

06-04-2003, 01:59 PM	#8
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	Mormonism is particularly suffocating. I was an active member of the Mormon church until I was old enough to make up my own mind about it, which was about age twelve. My mother still tried to make me go for a couple years, but thankfully she realized that I wasn't avoiding church because it was boring or because I didn't like getting all dolled up every Sunday, but because church just wasn't for me. The Mormons excommunicate anyone who openly admits to being homosexual. That's just the paperwork though, the real problem for gays here is the Mormon density... using data from the last census, a local paper showed that about 88% of residents in Utah County here are LDS (tried to find a link to the story, but I can't find one). About 60% desity in the whole state, but Utah County is Mormon HQ. Mormons do not tolerate homosexuals... they don't speak to them, help them out when they need something, or let their kids near them. So it is not surprsing that a lot of gay men here don't come out of the closet until after their tenth wedding anniversary. Being gay just isn't allowed, and anyone who chooses otherwise is shunned. Sad but true. Oh, and in case anybody was wondering, I'm straight. __________________ Hot Pastrami!

06-04-2003, 02:02 PM	#9
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	....on a related note, I read that Utah has the highest percentage of Prozac perscriptions per capita of all the US states. Hmm. I found an archived copy on Geocities __________________ Hot Pastrami!

06-04-2003, 08:16 PM	#13
Uryoces 2nd Covenant, yo Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pugetropolis Posts: 583	Christianity should be joyful and hippy-like, but somewhere along the line control was added. That happens in any large organization given a long enough time-frame. Yes, most definitely be a friend. My friendship kept a friend from committing suicide once. I wasn't there, which was all that much scarier, but he remembered me saying that if he moved to LA, I'd miss him and it would get boring. It was an innocent enough remark, but I meant it, and he didn't carry through. __________________ The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out.

06-04-2003, 11:50 AM	#3
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Well, I would curb the matchmaking urge and just make sure he knows youre his solid friend. Sounds to me like a relationship with either gender isnt his main problem or magic solution. A girlfriend or boyfriend cant fix it. He's got to solve it, there maybe lots of reasons why hes not coupled up, and single can be just fine. I'd watch for signs of depression, and offer the support you can.

06-04-2003, 12:50 PM	#4
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Yeah, it really sucks, and I guess there really are a lot of people who are like this. Religion is supposed to help people. How come more often than not it just ends up suffocating them?

06-04-2003, 01:52 PM	#6
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	You're a Christian, but you think it's all a pile of crap? Explain?

06-04-2003, 02:05 PM	#10
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Hey, isn't it neat how everything comes together?

06-04-2003, 03:34 PM	#11
windhund lost in space Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: over there Posts: 66	My cousin's life closely resembles your friend's. We believe he has had a couple of serious relationships with men, but he's never come out of the closet (he's not Mormon though). We finally got as much confirmation as we'll probably ever get that he is gay about 10 years ago when his "roommate" of 5 or so years suddenly moved out and he had a nervous breakdown as a result. There was clearly more going on there than just a house-sharing arrangement. My aunt kept hoping that he'd get married for the first 40 or so years of his life and then just gave up mentioning it. I don't know that you can do anything about people who are in such serious denial, other than be there to offer support if and when they need it.

06-04-2003, 08:19 PM	#14
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Wow, that's fucked up. It's funny how the smallest thing can change (or save) someone's life.

06-04-2003, 08:29 PM	#15
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Alan, it's possible that your friend could be gay, but it's also possible that he's just incredibly picky. And maybe he stresses his orientation to others b/c he's heard enough people wondering if he's gay. But warch said it best...he's gotta deal with it. Just be a good friend.

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