Replacing Napster

vsp · 01-01-2003, 11:42 PM

Ever since Napster went belly-up, I've looked around once in a while for a substantial replacement for it.

My requirements are simple:

* The focus is on MUSIC. It can carry file formats besides .MP3, but all of the available bandwidth shouldn't be chewed up by 3,485 Swedish titty flicks, 1,118 DivX copies of the new Harry Potter movie and 7,748 intentionally-misnamed house-ad MPEGs for generic porn sites.

* The interface needs to be simple enough for a rank amateur to grasp, but have some advanced features for those who want to do more than type in a Search box.

* It needs a HIGH SUCCESS RATE. This means that (a) a lot of people need to be using it, (b) they need to share a lot of files, so that you have a decent chance of finding something other than Britney Spears MP3s, and (c) more often than not, if you're looking for something reasonably common, _someone_ will have it available for download at faster than 0.04 kb/sec without leaving you on a six-hour queue.

And the winner is... WinMX. I tried out v3.31 at a friend's recommendation this weekend on my DSL connection, and there goes the neighborhood, my bandwidth and my free time. It's got a Napster-on-Steroids interface with some intelligent search options, a solid userbase, good search speeds, decent download times, and I'm having a blast just playing "Stump the Band" to search for artists that I _can't_ find anything for. So far, I've had to go to the likes of the Roadducks to reach that level of obscurity.

Bill Hicks live shows (outside of the recent Ryko releases), European versions of albums, Japanese ska, bootlegs, oddities... oh yeah. If I'm not back in a month, forward my mail.

That Guy · 01-02-2003, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vsp
Japanese ska...

I thought this was a serious post until I read that line. Funny.

vsp · 01-02-2003, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blowmeetheclown
I thought this was a serious post until I read that line. Funny.

What, you've never heard of the Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra, Kemuri, Potshot or the Ska Flames, among many others?

(You can find Kemuri's albums stateside in some enlightened record stores -- "77 Days" is a good starting point. Unfortunately, the Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra is strictly special-order import territory at this point.)

elSicomoro · 01-02-2003, 08:47 AM

The Japanese seem to love, and will try, any type of music. I've seen video footage of the fans going nuts over bands from Quiet Riot to Depeche Mode to Queen. Wild stuff.

perth · 01-02-2003, 08:56 AM

try newgroups too. the downside is that youre pretty much stuck with whatever people feel like posting, but the upside is that you can get a vast amount of music very quickly, and youre bound to find something you like.

~james

jaguar · 01-02-2003, 04:50 PM

www.slsk.org

Most users seem to be cable, speeds above 10 are the norm and above 100 are not uncommon. Most users are sharing large amounts, myself included, there is a very wide range including some stuff you'd only expect on a far bigger network, lots of international users add plenty of spice too. It's each to browse a person's files so i usually only download full albums.

Bitman · 01-02-2003, 05:53 PM

Soulseek appears to use a single central server. Apparantly they learned nothing from Napster... And now they're taking money too, so their future's not too bright.

tw · 01-02-2003, 10:10 PM

KaZaA, Morpheus and Audiogalaxy appear to be the biggest music exchange services. KazaA is particularly gaulling to the RIAA since written by three programmers in the Baltics under contract from someone in Scandanavia, then sold to an organization on a Pacific island with management in Australia - or something like that. If I have numbers correct, something less than 10 million songs a day are exchanged by KazaA alone.

However, a distributed software exchange appears to have some weaknesses. It leaves your computer exposed to network hackers. Details of where this can be avoided by properly setting a computer are unknown since I was not impressed by the technical background of those who claimed to have been hacked.

vsp · 01-03-2003, 10:39 AM

I tried out SoulSeek last night, and the connectivity and variety seemed to be on a par with WinMX. The search interface wasn't as good, but adequate, and I found myself looking for a toggle to group all the "active" search entries together, instead of digging through mountains of grayed "away" entries to find them.

I also had one person IM me to ASK if he could download an album from my shared-files collection. Full points for politeness, but if I didn't want people downloading my files, why would I put them in an Outgoing directory in the first place?

Kazaa, Morpheus and Audiogalaxy all have had spyware issues. So far, the others mentioned in this thread seem free of that, though running Ad-Aware frequently is always a good idea.

I tried Gnucleus (a Gnutella front-end), and while I haven't uninstalled it, the hit rate on searches (much less on successful downloads) is a lot lower. For oddballs like the Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra, I'm finding several magnitudes more on WinMX and SoulSeek than I have in months of searching Gnutella.

EDonkey is useful for specific situations -- i.e. you pretty much have to connect to a server where you know the content can be found. The Digital Archive Project has an EDonkey server, for instance, and it's a wealth of video files of non-commercially-released television programs, but you can't find those files on other Donkey servers.

The newsgroups can be either feast or famine. All services are no better than whoever's using them at a given time, but the newsgroups introduce a time factor that limits their usefulness. On a "live" service, people pop in and out constantly, and sharing files is as simple as designating a directory; on a newsgroup, someone has to make the conscious decision to encode files, post them (under an easily-traceable address) and remain connected throughout the upload. Meanwhile, the user at the other end needs (a) a good news server, (b) a good news client (hail Gravity), and (c) to find and retrieve the articles before they fall off the news spool.

All "live" file-sharing services have security issues. That's inherent any time you connect -- you're essentially yelling "Hello World, this is my hard drive, and any of you can play with the files in this portion of it." The usual precautions and caveats apply.

hermit22 · 01-03-2003, 12:47 PM

The best thing is to find a music sharing community. There are several out there, where people set up ftps and post to a website whatever they post, take requests, etc. It really has broadened my horizons, and sent me further into my current jazz and or indie phaze.

juju · 01-03-2003, 12:59 PM

Hmm.. how do you go about finding those?

hermit22 · 01-03-2003, 01:30 PM

Spend time on IRC, mostly. That's how I've run across them in the past. Unfortunately, I've been far too busy lately to really be active, and if you're not active, they cut you loose and you have to go through the whole sign-up process again. Paranoid bastards.

vsp · 01-03-2003, 01:43 PM

That's why P2P alternatives are superior to IRC, in my opinion -- you don't have to jump through hoops, negotiate with wareZ d00dz or be a constantly-active participant to get started, but most have built-in chat rooms and such to use if you want that kind of socialization.

But that's just me.

Torrere · 01-27-2003, 02:08 AM

I use Soulseek, but I wish that it had some search refinement capabilities.

You should be able to toggle greyed songs, and you should be able to denote what is the beginning of your search. I was searching for the group "Storm" yesterday and found hundreds of results, of which only a handful were relevent and which I had to filter by hand.

I was thinking about Napster compared to Soulseek this morning. Are there any ways in which Soulseek is actually improved over Napster, or are they basically the same program? (with different crowds)

Pie · 01-27-2003, 08:32 AM

How about for us Mac OS X freaks? I'm still using LimeWire -- I'm not too thrilled about it, but it sorta gets the job done.

Any favorite products for the non-MS crowd?

- pie

01-01-2003, 11:42 PM	#1
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	Replacing Napster Ever since Napster went belly-up, I've looked around once in a while for a substantial replacement for it. My requirements are simple: * The focus is on MUSIC. It can carry file formats besides .MP3, but all of the available bandwidth shouldn't be chewed up by 3,485 Swedish titty flicks, 1,118 DivX copies of the new Harry Potter movie and 7,748 intentionally-misnamed house-ad MPEGs for generic porn sites. * The interface needs to be simple enough for a rank amateur to grasp, but have some advanced features for those who want to do more than type in a Search box. * It needs a HIGH SUCCESS RATE. This means that (a) a lot of people need to be using it, (b) they need to share a lot of files, so that you have a decent chance of finding something other than Britney Spears MP3s, and (c) more often than not, if you're looking for something reasonably common, _someone_ will have it available for download at faster than 0.04 kb/sec without leaving you on a six-hour queue. And the winner is... WinMX. I tried out v3.31 at a friend's recommendation this weekend on my DSL connection, and there goes the neighborhood, my bandwidth and my free time. It's got a Napster-on-Steroids interface with some intelligent search options, a solid userbase, good search speeds, decent download times, and I'm having a blast just playing "Stump the Band" to search for artists that I _can't_ find anything for. So far, I've had to go to the likes of the Roadducks to reach that level of obscurity. Bill Hicks live shows (outside of the recent Ryko releases), European versions of albums, Japanese ska, bootlegs, oddities... oh yeah. If I'm not back in a month, forward my mail.

01-02-2003, 04:50 PM	#6
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	www.slsk.org Most users seem to be cable, speeds above 10 are the norm and above 100 are not uncommon. Most users are sharing large amounts, myself included, there is a very wide range including some stuff you'd only expect on a far bigger network, lots of international users add plenty of spice too. It's each to browse a person's files so i usually only download full albums. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-03-2003, 12:47 PM	#10
hermit22 sleep. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: So Cal. Posts: 257	The best thing is to find a music sharing community. There are several out there, where people set up ftps and post to a website whatever they post, take requests, etc. It really has broadened my horizons, and sent me further into my current jazz and or indie phaze. __________________ blippety blah bluh blah blah

01-03-2003, 01:30 PM	#12
hermit22 sleep. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: So Cal. Posts: 257	Spend time on IRC, mostly. That's how I've run across them in the past. Unfortunately, I've been far too busy lately to really be active, and if you're not active, they cut you loose and you have to go through the whole sign-up process again. Paranoid bastards. __________________ blippety blah bluh blah blah

01-27-2003, 08:32 AM	#15
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	How about for us Mac OS X freaks? I'm still using LimeWire -- I'm not too thrilled about it, but it sorta gets the job done. Any favorite products for the non-MS crowd? - pie __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

01-02-2003, 08:47 AM	#4
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The Japanese seem to love, and will try, any type of music. I've seen video footage of the fans going nuts over bands from Quiet Riot to Depeche Mode to Queen. Wild stuff.

01-02-2003, 08:56 AM	#5
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	try newgroups too. the downside is that youre pretty much stuck with whatever people feel like posting, but the upside is that you can get a vast amount of music very quickly, and youre bound to find something you like. ~james

01-02-2003, 05:53 PM	#7
Bitman cellar smellar Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: californy, baby! Posts: 403	Soulseek appears to use a single central server. Apparantly they learned nothing from Napster... And now they're taking money too, so their future's not too bright.

01-02-2003, 10:10 PM	#8
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	KaZaA, Morpheus and Audiogalaxy appear to be the biggest music exchange services. KazaA is particularly gaulling to the RIAA since written by three programmers in the Baltics under contract from someone in Scandanavia, then sold to an organization on a Pacific island with management in Australia - or something like that. If I have numbers correct, something less than 10 million songs a day are exchanged by KazaA alone. However, a distributed software exchange appears to have some weaknesses. It leaves your computer exposed to network hackers. Details of where this can be avoided by properly setting a computer are unknown since I was not impressed by the technical background of those who claimed to have been hacked.

01-03-2003, 10:39 AM	#9
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	I tried out SoulSeek last night, and the connectivity and variety seemed to be on a par with WinMX. The search interface wasn't as good, but adequate, and I found myself looking for a toggle to group all the "active" search entries together, instead of digging through mountains of grayed "away" entries to find them. I also had one person IM me to ASK if he could download an album from my shared-files collection. Full points for politeness, but if I didn't want people downloading my files, why would I put them in an Outgoing directory in the first place? Kazaa, Morpheus and Audiogalaxy all have had spyware issues. So far, the others mentioned in this thread seem free of that, though running Ad-Aware frequently is always a good idea. I tried Gnucleus (a Gnutella front-end), and while I haven't uninstalled it, the hit rate on searches (much less on successful downloads) is a lot lower. For oddballs like the Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra, I'm finding several magnitudes more on WinMX and SoulSeek than I have in months of searching Gnutella. EDonkey is useful for specific situations -- i.e. you pretty much have to connect to a server where you know the content can be found. The Digital Archive Project has an EDonkey server, for instance, and it's a wealth of video files of non-commercially-released television programs, but you can't find those files on other Donkey servers. The newsgroups can be either feast or famine. All services are no better than whoever's using them at a given time, but the newsgroups introduce a time factor that limits their usefulness. On a "live" service, people pop in and out constantly, and sharing files is as simple as designating a directory; on a newsgroup, someone has to make the conscious decision to encode files, post them (under an easily-traceable address) and remain connected throughout the upload. Meanwhile, the user at the other end needs (a) a good news server, (b) a good news client (hail Gravity), and (c) to find and retrieve the articles before they fall off the news spool. All "live" file-sharing services have security issues. That's inherent any time you connect -- you're essentially yelling "Hello World, this is my hard drive, and any of you can play with the files in this portion of it." The usual precautions and caveats apply.

01-03-2003, 12:59 PM	#11
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Hmm.. how do you go about finding those?

01-03-2003, 01:43 PM	#13
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	That's why P2P alternatives are superior to IRC, in my opinion -- you don't have to jump through hoops, negotiate with wareZ d00dz or be a constantly-active participant to get started, but most have built-in chat rooms and such to use if you want that kind of socialization. But that's just me.

01-27-2003, 02:08 AM	#14
Torrere a real smartass Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 1,121	I use Soulseek, but I wish that it had some search refinement capabilities. You should be able to toggle greyed songs, and you should be able to denote what is the beginning of your search. I was searching for the group "Storm" yesterday and found hundreds of results, of which only a handful were relevent and which I had to filter by hand. I was thinking about Napster compared to Soulseek this morning. Are there any ways in which Soulseek is actually improved over Napster, or are they basically the same program? (with different crowds)

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