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Old 03-30-2017, 05:17 PM   #31
xoxoxoBruce
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If he violated what a parental government and policeman says, then he will be punished. A child only understands that emotion.
WTF are you talking about, that's not an emotion, that's a lesson learned about consequences. Thats a good thing for anyone, so they can make a rational decision about whether to obey or not.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:56 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
WTF are you talking about, that's not an emotion, that's a lesson learned about consequences.
Some great men in history ignored consequences because logic dictated a unemotional response. Yes, some consequences make logical sense. Because the logical see logic in that conclusion. But an adult who is a child only 'fears' consequences.

Not everyone's response to consequences is due to emotion alone. Nobody is unemotional. He just tempers (controls) emotions with logical thought. Or may direct emotion for a logical conclusion. Emotion is a tool - just like money and propaganda. Logic is routinely in charge - when a adult is an adult.

A child only sees (fears) consequences as something painful - to be avoided. He does not know why. He does not have the prefrontal cortex to control those emotions. He only knows from a resulting pain. That is a decision entirely based in emotion.

Does a four year old follow rules because he knows why they exist? Of course not. He does that because a child only understands emotions. Resulting pain is call consequences. His response is an emotional fear of pain.

BTW, why start with WTF? An adult does not waste bandwidth with their emotions. Who use profanity most often? Another indication of an adult who is so more emotional. And so the question: can you grasp a well defined concept from psychology? Or do you always start by entertaining your emotions; start with a WTF response?
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Old 03-30-2017, 07:44 PM   #33
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:23 PM   #34
xoxoxoBruce
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Originally Posted by tw View Post
Nobody is unemotional. He just tempers (controls) emotions with logical thought. Or may direct emotion for a logical conclusion. Emotion is a tool - just like money and propaganda. Logic is routinely in charge - when a adult is an adult.

A child only sees (fears) consequences as something painful - to be avoided. He does not know why. He does not have the prefrontal cortex to control those emotions. He only knows from a resulting pain. That is a decision entirely based in emotion.
No no no, consequences are not necessarily painful, they could be, minimal, embarrassing, costly, or death, and must be evaluated before taking action. You're thinking like a four year old.
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Does a four year old follow rules because he knows why they exist? Of course not. He does that because a child only understands emotions. Resulting pain is call consequences. His response is an emotional fear of pain.
Your father must have been fond of corporal punishment, as you're still stuck in a four year old's definition of consequences.
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BTW, why start with WTF? An adult does not waste bandwidth with their emotions. Who use profanity most often? Another indication of an adult who is so more emotional. And so the question: can you grasp a well defined concept from psychology? Or do you always start by entertaining your emotions; start with a WTF response?
You're starting that shit again? When will you learn you'll get no fucking traction or respect with that Parson Brown act here. Grow up!
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:46 AM   #35
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me, myself, and I

"...you are a team player working first and foremost for the safety, protection, and cooperation of all else on your team."

Nope.

As I say, I drive safely for 'me', to preserve 'my' life, 'my' property...that the other folks on the road benefit is, to me, incidental.

Now, you gonna take me at my word, or, are you gonna keep on interpreting 'me' through the filters of your own agenda?
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Old 03-31-2017, 09:48 AM   #36
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So weird that you're using ENGLISH to make these statements. It's the language society taught us and that we all agreed to use!
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Old 03-31-2017, 10:46 AM   #37
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ut is not gonna get up my nose...ut is not gonna get up my nose...

Irrelevant.

I use english for my own purposes, not yours.

I stay within proscribed road usage for my purposes, not TW's.

When I use a public toilet it's for 'me', not other folks.

The communal nature of the tool doesn't negate why I use that tool.
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Old 03-31-2017, 10:53 AM   #38
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No no no, consequences are not necessarily painful, they could be, minimal, embarrassing, costly, or death, and must be evaluated before taking action. You're thinking like a four year old.
To a child, consequences without pain are routinely ignored. Logic does not exist in a child. Everything is about emotions.

Painful to a child is an adult who withholds affection or approval. Even an adult's facial expressions can be a painful consequence. (You must have seen that in videos demonstrating child psychology -right?) That consequence (even a facial expression) is painful to a child.

A child's world is fully about emotion. Emotion is the only 'how' a children learns what is right or wrong. Intelligent parents never use corporal punishment - as you assumed they must for reasons that are scary. Corporal punishment is used by parents who do not understand this - who therefore are abusive.

Why do you have so much trouble with well understood psychology? Why do you foolishly assume only corporal punishment works? A potential child beater would not understand any of this; must only believe "Use the whip; save the child." Apparently all this is new? Apparently you never learned consequences are best used without any physical action. Because a child's world is only about emotions.

Emotions also easily manipulate (brainwash) adults who are still children. Only propaganda and soundbytes will manipulate adults who are still children.
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:15 AM   #39
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You were hungry. You noticed that there was this big wedding reception going on at the hall next to you. So you went and pretended to be in the reception, and you accepted a chicken dinner. Before anyone noticed that you weren't actually a part of the whole deal, and had less than zero interest in it, you had et and left.

The ridiculous rules of the reception made it easy to mock; why WOULD anyone want to be a part of it? The Hokey Pokey, are you kidding me? And the extra dinner would have just been thrown away; they always make extras in case something goes wrong.
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:21 AM   #40
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Now, you gonna take me at my word, or, are you gonna keep on interpreting 'me' through the filters of your own agenda?
I never take anyone's word that also does not come with reasons why and perspective. Making blanket statements without even one reason to say "why it is true or exists" demonstrated a child's perspective of the world. Too much "Me me me" attitude is observed. It implies a rather irresponsible attitude only tempered by consequences and the resulting emotions.

An adult does not do something only because it is the law. An adult does beyond what laws requires because it is responsible - a logical decision.

Too many denials only because you don't like it. A classic example of a conclusion only based in emotions.

A child only drives cooperatively because consequences are severe. Fast and Furious movies try to teach these adult children that consequences do not exist. These adults, who are clearly children, are often seen on highways. But rarely when a cop car is observed. Only consequences (fear of that cop) matter. Responsibility is less understood by adults who are still children.
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:50 AM   #41
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Let me get this straight...

If I drive safe cuz I'm lookin' to be a teamplayer, then I'm an adult.

...but...

If I drive safely cuz I wanna preserve 'me', then I'm a child.

Okay.

What I draw from that...

'Selfless' cooperation is mature and 'right'.

...and...

Self-interest is immature and 'wrong'.

Well, break out your little book, TW, and mark me down as 'wrong-headed kid' cuz I want nuthin' to do with your conception of the altruistic, selfless, communitarian, 'moderate' adult.
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Old 03-31-2017, 01:45 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
You were hungry. You noticed that there was this big wedding reception going on at the hall next to you. So you went and pretended to be in the reception, and you accepted a chicken dinner. Before anyone noticed that you weren't actually a part of the whole deal, and had less than zero interest in it, you had et and left.

The ridiculous rules of the reception made it easy to mock; why WOULD anyone want to be a part of it? The Hokey Pokey, are you kidding me? And the extra dinner would have just been thrown away; they always make extras in case something goes wrong.
The invisible hand of the free market always creates a chicken dinner for the people who deserve one. The source of the chicken dinners is pure capitalist commerce. Wedding receptions never happened because the government told me to have one! I deserve that chicken dinner--the socioeconomic conditions of my life are entirely due to my own personal prowess and business savvy. And the free market. My personal awesomeness and the free market. Not the government. Not society. ME.

The whole cooperative enterprise of human civilization, stretching back across eons of time, is dumb. The only good thing is the 80-or-so years in which I am living, in which good old-fashioned American capitalism created chicken dinners for the good people who deserve them.
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Old 03-31-2017, 01:54 PM   #43
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If I drive safely cuz I wanna preserve 'me', then I'm a child.
You are driving first and foremost to protect those many adjacent drivers - your team members. And second, also driving to protect yourself. All comes under the title of being responsible - an adult.

Adult children don't care. They drive like a responsible adult only when it is beneficial to them - when there are no consequences - no pain. Fast and Furious - an example of an adult who is still a child.

Nobody said anyone is a child. Please read with care. We are discussing adults. Two types. Those who use a prefrontal cortex to become responsible adults. And other adults who remain childish - who are only emotional. Daesh recruits and religious extremists are a perfect example of the latter.

Children who are adults do not exist. Children with the mind of a child are routine. And have no relationship to above discussed adults - other than share common symptoms.

This started with a fundamental point. Non serviam. Not a team player. Adults usually are team players. An exception is something called anarchy. It is justified by logic that adults use. And not by emotions that an adult child would use to justify his beliefs.

Just thought I would throw anarchy in there to stir the pot.
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Old 03-31-2017, 01:56 PM   #44
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The only good thing is the 80-or-so years in which I am living, in which good old-fashioned American capitalism created chicken dinners for the good people who deserve them.
Or maybe those dinners were only created for people, good or bad, who can pay for them?
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Old 03-31-2017, 01:57 PM   #45
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