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Old 11-10-2018, 06:29 AM   #46
Undertoad
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Plus, I can't stop thinking about this:

In terms of "get off my back and let me be", private regulation is usually MORE onerous than government regulation. It can be, because it doesn't have to stop and worry about rights. It just boldly goes ahead.

Like the MPAA movie ratings system (PG, R, etc) - not a product of government - private regulation just says outright whether a 12-year-old or 16-year-old can watch a movie, without considering rights at all.

At times it can be wonderfully beneficial and work better than government - see UL - but damn, a private auditor can fuck you way harder than a government regulator, and charges you for it!
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:10 AM   #47
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Yeah, there are definitely times when private regulation works beautifully but if I'm going to choose between getting poisoned and seeking redress and government banning use of the toxin preemptively, I probably look to government. I'm not sure there is a simply applied concept for teasing out individual cases where private is more useful. We have to case by case this which we do when Presidents stop enforcement of regulations and people do or do not get pissed. Humans are involved so it's complicated.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:13 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
In terms of "get off my back and let me be", private regulation is usually MORE onerous than government regulation. It can be, because it doesn't have to stop and worry about rights. It just boldly goes ahead.
Reflecting on this, I think about gated communities and parking, paint, and flag rules which can get pretty petty and personal.
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Old 11-10-2018, 10:12 AM   #49
xoxoxoBruce
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When it comes to interstate, federal is the only solution, although the feds have made some questionable claims whether a situation is interstate commerce or not.

Gated and HOAs are the Devils doing.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:34 PM   #50
henry quirk
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"If you look at it another way, most regulation is just agreeing on the complaint/merit beforehand."

Based on *one-size-fits-all precedent.

Nah, that doesn't suck at all, Toad.

#

"Indeed. That was what I was trying to get at originally."

No it wasn't, HM. You were just applyin' a dull razor to my notions: that's it, that's all, g'night Gracie.

#

Me, not seein' how "get off my back and let me be" connects or leads to or is related to 'private regulation'. Conflatin' & besmirchin': that's tw's game, Toad.

#

"private regulation"

Nuthin' wrong with private regulations (like how 'you' run your household, for example) as long as private doesn't trump public (which, in the minimal 'night watchman' affair I propose, is **minimal but encompassing).

#

"gated communities"

If dumbasses wanna live in 'em, that's on them. Leave folks to their self-selected hells, I say

#

"I'm not sure there is a simply applied concept for teasing out individual cases..."

Of course there is, Griff.

#

"When it comes to interstate (commerce) federal is the only solution"

Of course not, Bruce.







*largely arrived at through the machinations of shysters (well-paid parasites)


**for latecomers, the memory-challenged, and the plain-ass retarded:

'Mind your own business and keep your hands to yourself (or else).

...out from which extends:

'Self and property are sacred.'

'Self-defense and common defense are a justification for violence.'

'A contract is a contract.'
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:44 PM   #51
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Quote:
Me, not seein' how "get off my back and let me be" connects or leads to or is related to 'private regulation'.
Never tried to go into an R-rated movie when you were 16?
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:29 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
"Indeed. That was what I was trying to get at originally."

No it wasn't, HM. You were just applyin' a dull razor to my notions: that's it, that's all, g'night Gracie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey View Post
How you define your business and how others define their business will conflict, whether in the scope of profit-making enterprises or not. There is no platonic ideal of "my business". Regulation provides the common framework for resolving those conflicts.
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:25 PM   #53
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"Never tried to go into an R-rated movie when you were 16?"

I saw my very first porno ('Alice in Wonderland' with Kristine DeBell [what a piece of ass she was {mebbe still is}]) in the Joy Theater in Rayne, Louisiana. My buddy Bart (a perv before hs time) found out the flick was comin' to town. Bein' an aficionado of all things Blue, Bart made his plans, enlisted me, and we went, we saw, we were blown away.

As I recall: it was advertised as an R movie, but it wasn't R, no sir, it wasn't R at all.

Anywho: there's the age of minority and there's the age of marjority and never the twain shall meet ('cept at midnight leadin' into the 18th birthday). Simply: kids -- bein' kids -- don't get the full measure of autonomy adults do.

This means I get to order mine around right up to 12:01am (as his 18th begins). All his future, adolescent demands for 'freedom' mean nuthin' to me (cuz, me, I'm a [loving] bastid).

No, the full measure of autonomy comes to a body with age, not fully realized from birth, meaning: I got no problem with kids gettin' the short end of the stick.

#

HM,

Nice try (at a save) but, nope, no soup for you.
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Old 11-10-2018, 11:21 PM   #54
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I get to order mine around right up to 12:01am (as his 18th begins)
Could you order him to go alone to an R-rated movie, if that's what you wished to do?
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Old 11-11-2018, 08:39 AM   #55
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nah, I'd take him with me...why should he have all the fun?

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Old 11-11-2018, 09:20 AM   #56
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This prohibition doesn't bother you, to the point where you minimize it for the purposes of our discussion.

But that was just one example. These kinds of private prohibitions/regulations are all around us. This is water.

Employers are really restrictive to employees -- specifying what to wear, what to say, how many minutes late you can possibly be, what punishments will be doled out, etc. etc.

On a scale, all these restrictions affect the average person way more than anything the government ever does to them, don't you think? On a scale, on average.

It's like, how can you be considered "free" if you have a boss you report to for half your waking hours?
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Old 11-11-2018, 09:36 AM   #57
xoxoxoBruce
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The rules are part of the contract you make with the employer.
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Old 11-11-2018, 09:40 AM   #58
henry quirk
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"you minimize it"

You're inflating it.

#

"all these restrictions affect the average person way more than anything the government ever does"

The big difference: if you don't like restrictions levied by an employer, you can quit and that employer can't tell you shit, can't do jack ('cept fill the position with some other jerk). Try that trick with 'government'.

Age restrictions on movies: can't grt worked up about those either. They're 'kids'...they'll grow into their autonomy.

#

"It's like, how can you be considered "free" if you have a boss you report to for half your waking hours?"

Then don't work for that bosss, if it grinds your gears. Work for someone else, work for yourself, go on the dole, starve. Ain't no one gonna stop you.

Me: I self-employ. My 'masters' are my bills and my biology, not a 'boss'. Clients sometimes get 'bossy', but I kill that shit before it starts in the work contract.

Anyway: yeah, there are all manner of 'restrictions' a body has to contend with, and a goodly chunk of 'em are volitional on our part.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:56 PM   #59
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Quote:
if you don't like restrictions levied by an employer, you can quit and that employer can't tell you shit, can't do jack ('cept fill the position with some other jerk). Try that trick with 'government'.
I have a similar trick I do with government.

One of the more nasty restrictions of the government is, if you own and/or ingest a particular naturally-growing plant, the government will put you in a cage.

Yet despite this being the case, me and several of my friends have owned and ingested the plant, one dude for four decades, and none of them has ever been put in a cage. None of them is even the slightest bit concerned about this possibility.

It turns out that this is part of how the law works. Although law itself is often bizarre, the actual application of it is much more practical, and that is built in, in many ways.

If you get away with it, it is "legal" for you, in a weird practical sense.
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:17 PM   #60
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If the government "big brother" orders you not to avoid hiring someone strictly based upon them being gay, as a society we weigh whether the importance of you being compelled as such outweighs the gay individual being restricted by an even more onerous "private regulation" i.e. your prejudice. The greater Freedom is achieved by a government regulation overturning a "private" regulation.

This is the basis and moral concept of regulatory frameworks that uphold our unalienable rights of life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Without a kindergarten teacher on the playground, bullies will and DO take control of everything, INCLUDING everyone else's ability to have Freedom . This is America 101.
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