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Old 12-12-2018, 03:18 AM   #46
Flint
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:01 AM   #47
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Taking multiple living generations into account, there is still a point where "annoying" becomes "rapey" to just about everyone. It's where annoying is maxed out and the threshold into rapey is crossed, which varies with individual tolerances. There is a range of overlap when looking at groups of people. It's just a line, however, for each individual...the straw that broke the camel's back so to say.

That point is reached when the behavior becomes...
WAIT FOR IT

,,,intolerably irritating.

If you're into pushing the envelope, consider yourself lucky if told your behavior is kinda rapey. Be smart enough to desist before reaching the point of no return.
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:23 AM   #48
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Men of the thread, can you imagine being asked by a woman to have sex, in the beginning of a date, saying no, and then... OMG... having to endure the horror of being asked AGAIN later in the evening

the HORROR


the



HORROR
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:14 AM   #49
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Yabbut the context changes when one person is strong enough to force the other. Try this instead:

Men of the thread, can you imagine hanging out with a dude friend and he asks you to have sex? And you say no, but hey, you're an enlightened guy and it's cool, no harm done, you just go back to playing video games... and then just before you're about to leave, he leans in at the doorframe and asks again?




Now imagine that you say no, again, and he says "too bad" and rapes the shit out of you.

But hey, awful things happen, you report him to the cops, you go to therapy, you get over it... And a few years later, you're hanging out with a new dude friend, and he asks you to have sex with him. And you say no.

And then he asks again.



There is an inherent vulnerability to being a woman that is very, very hard for dudes to grasp. Yes, most men aren't rapists, and most women want to assume the best of most men. But sometimes men can be so fucking blind to the power dynamic. Believe me, women never forget the power dynamic. It's always in the back of our minds. Always.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:26 AM   #50
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But just to lighten the mood again, no, I don't think the song in question is rapey. It's just an illustration of an older, shittier system of formal courtship.
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:04 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
Now imagine that you say no, again, and he says "too bad" and rapes the shit out of you.
Man, I hate when that happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
Believe me, women never forget the power dynamic.
That's because y'all have all the pussy. That's power, right thar.
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:11 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
There is an inherent vulnerability to being a woman that is very, very hard for dudes to grasp. Yes, most men aren't rapists, and most women want to assume the best of most men. But sometimes men can be so fucking blind to the power dynamic. Believe me, women never forget the power dynamic. It's always in the back of our minds. Always.
Maybe we're blind to it because the thought of forcing ourselves on a woman never enters our mind.
Every time I drive down the road the car coming the other way could swerve into me, but I don't worry about that every time I drive or I'd drive myself nuts.
I don't see how the "new system" changes that. Regardless of the evenings conversations, in the end if he's a rapist and wants her, he'll try to take her.
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Men of the thread, can you imagine being asked by a woman to have sex, in the beginning of a date, saying no, and then... OMG... having to endure the horror of being asked AGAIN later in the evening
There's been a couple of hypotheticals proposed where there's two proposals of sex during a date, accompanied by "two isn't so bad, right?". If you get that concession, will you stick with that, or move on to "well, how about three? Three requests in one night isn't so horrible, is it?"?

If you'll stick with two, the second one seems like it would be more appropriate and likely to succeed than the one at the beginning of the date, so why not stick with that one?
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:25 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce
Maybe we're blind to it because the thought of forcing ourselves on a woman never enters our mind.
And that's awesome that it gets to be that way for you. Not being a horrible person is step one. Making an effort to remember that other people have every reason to be afraid of horrible people is step two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce
I don't see how the "new system" changes that. Regardless of the evenings conversations, in the end if he's a rapist and wants her, he'll try to take her.
The new system does very little for you, a not-horrible person. But it makes it easier for us to figure out which people are horrible. Women do have some ability to extricate ourselves from borderline situations--and history has shown that we will be blamed if we don't. So anything that makes it clearer is a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce
...but I don't worry about that every time I drive or I'd drive myself nuts.
Well, they do say "bitches be crazy."
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:33 PM   #55
xoxoxoBruce
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Well part of being a not horrible person is probably having a dick too short to even consider sex with someone who's is not helping.
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:54 PM   #56
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Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha!!
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Old 12-12-2018, 02:04 PM   #57
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"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
--Theodore "Rough Rider" Roosevelt
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:20 PM   #58
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Context matters and so does intent.

Of the several things that put me off Dave (that guy I dated for a few months after being friends for about 3 years)was an occasion where being into me tripped over into being a creep.

I had the flu - I felt wretched so I called him to say I didn't really feel up to getting together that day. We hadn;t planned anything major - we were just going to hook up, maybe go get a meal and then land back at his.

He showed up at my door with a bunch of flu remedies and a hot water bottle - this was very sweet of him. It wasn't what i wanted but it was very sweet. He persuaded me to go back to his place with him and he would look after me - he said we won't do anything, just chill and watch some movies under a duvet.

Like a fuckwit I thought he was being genuinely solicitous and would not pester me for sex.

We were 30 minutes into the movie and he made his first attempt to french kiss me and slip his hand under the duvet - I pulled away and said, seriously i don;t want to do anything, I feel horrible and absolutely not in the mood. He backed off for about 30 minutes then tried again. Again I said no - I explained I really really didn't feel up to anything like that. I didn't feel sexy, I felt shit and getting jiggy was the last thing I wanted at that moment.

This time he waited for about an hour before trying again.

None of that was for me. It was all for him. It was among the final nails in the coffin.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:18 AM   #59
Flint
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Dana, I have limited experiences with men, bet I empathize. Here’s two case studies:
Case Study #1: Gay friend hits on me, I turn him down. He never asks me again, because now I know he likes me-- and if I’m ever interested I will let him know. We’re still friends 20 years later.
Case Study #2: I’m spending a lot of time with a bisexual friend, and he does a lot of nice, supportive things for me. But, over time he puts increasing pressure on letting me know he’s interested in me and wants to hook up. I never reciprocate those feelings, but he keeps trying for the “magical number” of asks. We don’t hang out anymore.

For the guys: “How to get laid, guaranteed!”
Case study #1: One of the girls I’m seeing is a cute, twenty-something, pink-haired lesbian who hasn’t slept with another man for her entire adult life (verified by a mutual friend who has known her since middle school). Question: do you think I hooked up with her by a) constantly pestering her to have sex, or b) by letting her know I was interested and then waiting for her to decide if she felt the same way, and letting me know? Bonus question: if she’s been getting stuffed with huge, rock-hard, vibrating dildos for the last ten years, how soft and gentle do you think she wants it?

Summary:
1) One ask, one no (end).
2) Multiple asks, multiple noes.
3) One ask, one yes (repeat).

Conclusion:
Asking one time is all it takes to determine if someone is interested in you (or not). Asking more than once doesn’t change the response, because the respondent’s decision is external to the control of the requester.
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:16 PM   #60
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The Texas answer:


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