The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Current Events

Current Events Help understand the world by talking about things happening in it

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2006, 04:47 PM   #16
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
Quote:
I'm sure I'm overlooking something, but isn't a North Korean ICBM just *begging* for the US to prove its missle defense technology?
Maybe it did.

If it did, they wouldn't say it worked, if it went undetected.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 04:58 PM   #17
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
From what I've heard it's not ready yet.

Unlikly a war with North Korea 'cause that could put walmart out of business.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 06:11 PM   #18
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspode
I'm sure I'm overlooking something, but isn't a North Korean ICBM just *begging* for the US to prove its missle defense technology?
Silly. The US has a paper missile defense system that means we need not waste money on schools. It is nonsense. And then what are we defending from. Only worse case speculation says that missile can reach some remote parts of Alaska. So what? Well it makes those N Korean extremists happy while Kim Jung Il desperately tries to get the world to engage N Korea - to help him get N Koreans to understand a basic fact - the world is not trying to destroy N Korea.

But here in America where Cheney still has a big penis, cold war mentality, we are even building a missile defense system that does not work AND that our best experts say cannot work.

More big penis reasoning by leaders who see enemies everywhere.
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 06:22 PM   #19
Griff
still says videotape
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
I bet the US position is to do as little as possible, drag everything out.
We have to because the real problem here probably isn't nukes or missiles. Isn't the real problem all that functional conventional hardware pointed South?
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Griff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 06:23 PM   #20
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Even world events apply to Korea. For example, how did the US respond to Iran?

How to shake up American who don't take N Korea seriously? Carter did. Albright did. But instead our current leadership promotes N Korean extremists rather then engage N Korean intelligent leaders - centrists - the moderates. It’s called a big penis mentality that too often leads only to war.

N Korea has Cheney type (veins hanging from the lips) extremists AND others who know that will only make N Korea even worse. How do you get those big penis vein eaters to become part of the world?

What does S Korea (and N Korean moderates) want? If your perspective is sound bytes and charactures, then you have not a clue and probably have a big penis brain. Meanwhile, those who deal with Kim Jung Il recognize him as a sophisticated and intelligent man in a country full of 'mad man' leaders. You tell me how he takes his country into the world?

Well Jimmy Carter got the Nobel Prize for finding a perfect solution - that was supported by S Korea and Japan - and then subverted by an intelligent George Jr. George Jr did to the N Korean solution what he also did the Oslo Accords.

The only reason why N Korea is not stepping into becoming part of the world is US - in particular Cheney who does not even understand his 'big penis' mentality also may be recreating a second cold war with Russia. I should not have to explain that either because it is acknowledged and worried about by intelligent scholars.

How to solve two problems with one action. It is no coincidence that they would launch three types of missiles when the shuttle was launched, on 4 July, AND when George Jr is isolating N Korea rather than engaging it. First the big penis extremists in N Korea were appeased because they could show off the size of their penis. At the same time, intelligent N Korean leaders now have Americans - even your - attention. That is what they want. Otherwise the big penis extremists in N Korea entrench the country in to the inevitable - nuclear war.

Are you listening or does you penis replace your brain? If any paragraph here confuses you, you have not been doing what good voters do - learn what is happening. Nothing here should be new to you. Are they saber rattling? Of course. Did you ask why? If you did not understand the many different perspectives from so many different Koreans; if you think for one minute that N Korea is a monolithic entity like George Jr proclaims to his mental midget supporters, then we might as well go to war right now.

Kim Jung Il has long been trying to engage the world while in a country that would rather murder him for doing that. Do you blindly believe Rush Limbaugh hype that Kim Jung Il is a madman? Then you have not a clue.

Mike Chinoy has covered North Korea for nearly two decades. If what he says in not common knowledge, then you a perfect recruit for the big penis attitude promoted by Rush Limbaugh and Cheney. There is no big monolithic 'evil' N Korea as the American mental midgets would promote. This N Korean problem is directly traceable to moderates who desperately need to integrate N Korea into the world and a S Korea that wants to start a reunification that will take over 40+ years - as wacko N Korean extremists learn how not to think like Cheney. Currently most N Koreans are routinely brainwashed in lies that the whole world wants to destroy them. What an almost impossible situation for Kim Jung Il. Made even worse by so many wacko Americans who know and yet did not even learn the many perspectives in N Korea.

My previous URL was in error. This is a one hour discussion that should be common knowledge - to have opinions about N Korea:
Radio Times of 5 Jul 2006
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 06:56 PM   #21
MsSparkie
Curious Sagittarius
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 302
An American friend who is into rockets wrote this...do you agree?

"No Scud Soviet designation SS-1. It works more like a WW2 V2 only more accurate. The booster carries the warhead all the way to target. Staged boosters are a different animal altogether. Its an eclusive club. To my knowledge (I'm no expert) the only countries that posess staged rockets are US, Russia, China, and France. Pakistan and India may have them. If not they probably are not far off.

Although the NK missile failed they still recieved telemetry from it. Correcting the failure could be as simple as adding a battery operated heater to a valve that froze."



"...we have systems that are designed to hit aircraft. Some can be used against a missile IF......IF it is in a position to run it down. Hitting a rocket that can travel into the upper atmosphere is another project altogether. A rocket like a scud travels in a long wide arc or in the case of more sophisticated system like our cruis missiles a flat line. A staged rocket goes almost straight up. Once high enough it can release its warhead which then free falls to its target. When its burning fuel a heat seeker can key in on it if its in position. Once past apogee its no longer burning fuel and it has a very small radar signature to track. Thats what the ballistic missile defence sheild idea was all about. Unfortunantly it was poo pood ridiculed and called Star Wars as if it were fantasy. It was only a matter of time till this genie was out of the bottle."
__________________
~There is a forest in an acorn......
MsSparkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 07:49 PM   #22
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw
N Korea's European educated leader
this is false
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 08:52 PM   #23
MsSparkie
Curious Sagittarius
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 302
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2153892
__________________
~There is a forest in an acorn......
MsSparkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 10:30 PM   #24
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
[Europeans educated leader] is false[/url]
The official version could never admit that Kim Jong-Il was educated outside the country. Necessary for same reasons that Kim Jong-Il must be very careful in how he engages the world. Again, to admit an education outside of N Korea means extremists might just rise up and kill him. Many in N Korea are that brain washed extremist.

Meanwhile Kim Jung-Il sent his children to be educated in Switzerland - a country that Kim is said to have repeatedly visited. So yes, it is not clear that Kim was educated in Switzerland even though the claim was made long ago. A public acknowledgement of his boys educated in Switzerland is regarded by many that his children will not be permitted to succed Kim Jong-Il even though they were being groomed accordingly. Again, N Korea is that introverted. An official version could never say Kim was educated outside Korea.

Switzerland is a popular destination for all Kims. From english.chosun.com:
Quote:
... sister of Kim Jong-il's recently deceased wife Ko Young-hee, defected to the United States in May 1998 with her husband, a man in his late 40s identified only as Park, through the U.S. Embassy in Switzerland.
Yes, I cannot confirm that that Kim Jong-Il was Swiss educated. Only that he and many family members travel to or get educated in Switzerland. His background is cosmopolitian even though the official version will not admit same. The Guardian in Kim is a baby rattling the sides of a cot reports
Quote:
I also remember the first confirmed sightings of his son, Kim Jong-il: not the remote beast the CIA told us about, but a young man taking holidays in Malta and picking up his first lessons in sophisticated statecraft from Dom Mintoff.
Meanwhile Kim Jong-chul, his son, has been reported with two American friends from his International Swiss school - even at a rock and roll concert in Germany. Repeated rumors say that Kim also has $4billion in Swiss bank accounts.

The point remains that Kim - unlike most of his countrymen - is cosmopolitan and quite knowledgeable of the world as was noted by Sec of State Albright after long discussions. So knowledgeable and daring as to even educate his boys in Switzerland to be groomed as future N Korean leaders. World knowledge that is unusual for N Koreans power brokers.

And again, the point is that Kim Song-Il is playing a dangerous game trying to integrate N Korea into the world. Something he must do and that his extremists will strongly oppose - as what may have happened on a train ride back from China where an explosion later leveled the N Korean town.
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 10:27 AM   #25
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
Bri asked "Are we secretly doing things to threaten Kim"

One aspect - maybe from tw's radio times link - is that we are shutting down the ability of overseas banks to accept the counterfeit dollars that the Norks are producing, squeezing him economically.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 10:35 AM   #26
Elspode
When Do I Get Virtual Unreality?
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Raytown, Missouri
Posts: 12,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsSparkie
To my knowledge (I'm no expert) the only countries that posess staged rockets are US, Russia, China, and France. Pakistan and India may have them. If not they probably are not far off.
Japan is able to put things into orbit, so I assume that they have multiple staged rockets as well. Since they're still pretty much an unarmed nation since WWII, I'm guessing they were left out of the ICBM discussion, but if you can put something into orbit, you can make something fall down on someone else on another part of the planet.
__________________
"To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog
Elspode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 11:28 AM   #27
Kitsune
still eats dirt
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff
We have to because the real problem here probably isn't nukes or missiles. Isn't the real problem all that functional conventional hardware pointed South?
That is my understanding, yes, while the nukes are an issue the US isn't really concerned with DPRK launching them, but with obliterating Seoul which is within easy shelling distance. I think this comes down to more of the worry of DPRK retaliating against South Korea if we were to try to intervene in any of their arms development and that is why we're hopeful that China will start putting more pressure on Kim.
Kitsune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 11:33 AM   #28
rkzenrage
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Full embargo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 12:53 PM   #29
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Previous was only analysis of past history. Next look future. We had a perfect deal to buy off Kim - to give him something to engage his extremists so they will learn how introverted they were. It got Jimmy Carter the Nobel Peace Prize. And then we (ie Congress) destroyed it using rhetoric rather than logic.

Kim Jong-Il is all but begging the world to buy him out - to give him something so that he can open his country (and his extremists) to the world. But with each new weapon system, that cost becomes higher.

Jimmy Carter bought off Kim cheaply. A couple of nuclear power plants and some oil. The next deal will no longer be so inexpensive. He now has missiles that work (but probably have no accuracy - inferior guidance systems). That means cost of buying him out has become much higher.

Tell an American extremist (like Cheney) that we will buy out Kim and Cheney will instead demand war. That is the current American mentality. The cost of buying out Kim is already way too high for extremist Americans to swallow. And over time, the same price will only get higher. Right now, we could buy out Kim Jong-Il real cheap - when compared to how much more expensive that price will become.

With those missile launches, Kim is telling us what the new price will be. This is not what he wants. This is the price he must get to satisfy his extremists. And without a famine, that price is even higher.

Are you looking forward? Do you see what George Jr did to kill off that Jimmy Carter agreement AND do you understand what ignoring N Korea means in the cost of settlement? Of course, we could just continue sitting on our hands and doing nothing - and then war breaks out. Why do you think the S Koreans (and rightly so) regard American as the greater threat to peace.

That radio broadcast should have opened many eyes to the problem we have created by underming the Jimmy Carter settlement.

War is created by failures at the negotiation table. Kim Jong-Il (probably even to avoid assassination) desperately needs a deal he can sell to his extremists. With each new weapons system, that price increases immensely. When were you going to understand this? The Jimmy Carter deal was what - 10 years ago?
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 12:54 PM   #30
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkzenrage
Full embargo.
It already exists. It only entrenches those extremists which is why they want more destructive weapons. The only solution is engagement - so that those extremists and their brain washed population learn they have been lied to about the world.
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:32 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.