Merry F'in Christmas - I want a divorce.

[lookout123]

said Mrs Lookout. She just doesn't feel passion for me the way she thinks she should... so divorce is the obvious answer.

i am seriously freaking out right now. i truly love her and i could go on for pages... but i have a 4 1/2 year old son who is the bright spot of my life. I can't even imagine not waking up a couple doors down from him without hyperventilating. seriously. i can't even think straight.

just last week i mentioned to someone that i had absolutely everything i've ever dreamed of. A beautiful wife, a healthy son, a decent career, nice house... now i'll have the opportunity to sit in a crappy apartment crying my eyes out missing my wife and son with the gnawing realization that my sales abilities evaporate when i'm under family stress.

fuck.

[Beestie]

Holy shit.

I'm not even going to begin to act like I know what to say. All I can say at this point is that, in due time, you WILL get through this. And whatever we can offer you in terms of support, advise, admonitions or whatever is called for is yours for the taking - we'll do what we can to help you navigate your way through this difficult period.

I'm really sorry to hear this - whatever is going on, join with your wife to shield the child - don't deny or pretend, instead, acknowlege but minimize.

[Undertoad]

Dude! That sucks man... we are with you... the worst of this is the first week or two when you can't imagine your shit hanging together.

You can't imagine it now because it's like getting punched in the gut. Expect to go throught the five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. I was way better after the anger phase...

You will come out of it stronger and wiser. If you think your life was good before, it will be unimaginably better with someone who DOES have that kind of passion for you.

We are here guy, write about what moves you... you have the freedom to do that and our support.

here's my own divorce thread - a lot of people have good advice in it.

Two years later, things are way better now than when I was married. What a dumb loveless marriage! My big regret is that it went on as long as it did.

[Trilby]

Lookout, I don't know what to say to you because I want to make things right and I know nothing will do that at this moment. Some of us here in the Cellar, myself included twice, have gone through this particular hell and I know that I, for one, will be here for you. I know how much you love your wife. Now, remember: you deserve to be loved that much in return. My thoughts are with you and your son.

[Griff]

Crap. I'm sorry man. Listen to Tony, he laid it all out here as it went down and gets major props for dealing with it and moving on.

Is there any way you can get custody? After all, she is initiating this.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Damn.


I'm surprised....You have always said good things about her.....not even the usual husbandly gripes.
I suppose something had to happen since you've been on a roll at work with fun trips on the side.

Sometimes living in a garage and struggling to survive brings people together, as equal partners, with a common goal. But then he becomes the breadwinner and she becomes the wife/mother, jealousy rears it's ugly head. He's envious of her relative freedom and she's longing for the social interactions of the business world, but of course they are both wrong in that they don't (want to) see the whole picture.

Sorry, I'm babbling.....any indication of a paramour?....or career? You know, I have to get away from you so that I can (blank).

Realisticly, we here in the Cellar can't do anything for you except offer dubious advice. I say dubious because we can't know all the variables, only generalities.
But that said, there are people here who genuinely care and make an excellent sounding board. We have a sum total of experience that's incredible and can offer at least three possible solutions to any question in a heartbeat.

Besides, I'm nosey as hell, so keep me informed....please.

[lookout123]

she has been very successful in her chosen field for 16 years, in fact last year is the first time i ever made more $$$ than her. so this isn't a bored housewife thing.

boyfriend? she says no. but of course she would even if it was true. just kind of the way it works i guess. she says she just wants to be alone, but i know her past. she hasn't been alone (without an SO) ever. so with that knowledge i have to admit that there probably is someone that she is at least interested in, whether or not she has acted on it.

custody? that would be damn near impossible. she is a great mother, so i have nothing to counter the normal child-goes-to-the-mother rule. i could drag out skeletons from before the boy was born, but that would be pointless and only be negative for all of us. i sat in his room from about 3AM on this morning just weeping. i can't imagine a world where i don't hear him talking in his sleep from across the house. as i type i am listening to him hum the "Star Wars" theme and play with his toys.

the fact is that i love her. i am quite often "in love" with her. but not always. i think "in love" is just the warm fuzzy feeling that comes and goes with stress and happiness in life. she thinks we shouldn't be married because she really honestly loves me, but she isn't "in love" anymore. the truth is that we hit a rough stretch around every christmas because she always gets a bit depressed and starts drinking a little bit more... we've always made it through it before. but she always had an open mind about working things out before. now she has already figured out how we will handle little lookout's weekly schedule and things like that. she doesn't have an open mind towards working things out at all.

last night she was telling me that it is obvious there is no passion left because we don't do anything fun anymore. when we are together we just stare at each other... WTF??? we/she has laughed more this year than ever before. we went to europe/mexico/2 cruises/SoCo, etc. we've been averaging 2 nights a week just the two of us sitting out in the backyard by the fireplace laughing and being goofy, making plans, talking about worries. a week ago she booked a week for the three of us and my parents in disneyland. if she really had decided this "some time" ago - why would she have gone and booked a vacation for all of us? it just doesn't add up.

we aren't the passionate couple we were 6/7 years ago, but who is passionate ALL the time after the first few years, a child, etc? she still gets flowers and other surprises frequently, cards all the time, etc. so, we don't have to fight the urge to maul eachother whenever we're in the same room like we did in the beginning. isn't that what happens when relationships mature?

i'm really struggling right now with all of this. to make matters worse, i don't really have much of a support network to tap into right now. we're not letting anyone know anything until after Christmas - no point in spoiling it for everyone right? OUR friends are really mostly her friends. i have my three best friends back in illinois, but this is so far out of their arenas that the advice will be nil, and i'm not near them so i can't just go and commiserate. my friends here have all drifted away as our economic situation improved and theirs didn't. those that stuck around have disappeared for other reasons. i am seriously sitting here alone with my grief right now. i talked to the pastor of our church and he is great to talk to, but not someone i'm going to go hang out with to get me through this.

i've never had a problem being alone before, but it has been a long time since i even contemplated the possibility of it. i don't even know how to function as a single individual past the college/bar scene days. i'm one of those weird guys that didn't even daydream about not being burdened with a family. it just never occurred to me to think about it. i've had everything i ever wanted.

i was just having a conversation with someone about a week ago about goals and dreams. he was trying to get me to set some new goals and i was having a hard time. he just looked at me like i was an idiot when i said, "i have everything i've ever dreamed of. a beautiful, loving wife, an amazing child, a great career, a beautiful home, and some measure of financial security." what more is there except for more of the same?

[xoxoxoBruce]

if she really had decided this "some time" ago - why would she have gone and booked a vacation for all of us? it just doesn't add up.

OK, then if this is a recent idea she my be running it up the flag pole. Don't salute. Don't give up. Work on making the holidays as pleasant as you can and maybe it will subside if you can pull it off without making it look like a desperate attempt to win her over.... even though we both know it is.

You mentioned you were making an effort to triple your income this year. Could this be a test of whether she or the business comes first? Those trips you took, maybe you said something about difficulty of arranging your schedule to fit them in that made her think the business had become more important than she is. Yes, I'm grasping.

Extended passion is tricky. Too little and you're bored with me. Too much and you're an animal that treats me like a sex object. But more often than not I think it's a catch all excuse for something they can't (or won't) put their finger on.

It seems you've talked more about losing the boy than losing her. Is that an order of priority? Rank of importance? I ask because a friend of mine in this situation was like, she's leaving..oh well, but his 4-ish son going with her really tore him up. As it worked out, the boy spent the weekends with him and they have a great relationship. He'll graduate from Penn State this spring.

Maybe you should have protested the wet tee shirt contests?

[lookout123]

it is definitely not that my career comes first. that has been a sticking point in the past because i absolutely refused to put in anything ahead of her and my son (in that order).
she is much more career oriented than i am. but this isn't a move to give her more time for her career. she is a self employed cosmetologist and is so successful that she doesn't accept new clients.

i have been speaking about being away from my son, more than her mainly because that is a completely foreign concept to me. i have never been separated from a child (except for business trips). the very thought panics me.

if i can explain it this way: the feeling i get while thinking about being away from her are a piercing pain in my chest and a headache from all the "what if" thoughts. the idea of her moving on without me...what if she moves and realizes i reallydidn't add any value to her life, etc. just spinning thoughts, pain, and sorrow. i don't know how, but i know that will be able to stand up again and move on. i don't know what i would move on to... but i know there is something. ( the problem here is that she has been the driving force that has made me succeed in the areas that i have, so what will drive me in her absence?)


the thought of life without my son is a crushing pain in my chest. i can't breathe when i think about not having him with me. since september of 2000 i haven't had a thought that wasn't about him in some way.

maybe this goes back to my thoughts in a very old thread about "what is our purpose?" i thought then and i do now that my purpose is to make my son a better man than i am.

i don't know, i'm getting all jumbled again and i have to go anyway.

time to go coach 8 4-6 year olds in the soccer game. if i can keep from crying while watching my son run up and down the field i will call it a success.

[richlevy]

Not much more that I can add except that I agree with Bruce that this might be a test or call for attention. See if she pursues it after the holidays. If so, consider offering marriage counseling. If it is a call for attention, she might just have issues she wants to bring up. If so, listen.

Whatever happens, taking care of the kid is obviously the number one priority.

The only other thing I could possibly say is good luck. It sounds trite, but I mean it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

cosmetologist….oh shit.
So she spends all day listening to women bitch about their lives and how it’s their husbands fault. Now, with a kid, you’ve settled into a lifestyle, she’s afraid of getting into a rut and she’ll end up like her whining clients.
Or, she’s listening to them lie about how wonderful their lives are and wonders why she’s a working mother/homemaker and not traveling in a sedan chair carried by four hunks.
Does she have any men as clients?

I’d speculate that 5 years into motherhood she’s having doubts about herself, you, the future and her choices. Wondering what if, maybe panicking a little about what will be.

Does she have any friends, with their heads screwed on tight, that can council her? Someone she can talk to about what she’s thinking? It’s a pretty good bet she won’t tell you exactly what’s on her mind even if she can figure it out herself. Often it’s nagging doubts that can’t be expressed exactly so they can’t be addressed.

Don’t give up…don’t do anything to make it worse….hide some cash…..keep us posted.

[lookout123]

her friends... that has been a complaint for years - that she doesn't have any really good friends. she has been hanging out with 2 girls from work for about a year. one just got married but gushes constantly how "lookout is the ideal husband". the other is a nasty little backbiter who will knife everyone every chance she gets. they both go out a lot and party though. for a year or so she would meet with some of the ladies from church for a Bible study. as boring as those chicks were i have to admit, that she has never had her head screwed on tighter than she was then. she quit that earlier this year, right about the time she started hanging out with the work chicks more, started smoking again, and drinking a little more. there is some history of substance abuse so i'm really just hoping and praying that we aren't back there.

5 years into motherhood... i'm sure that is part of it. the thing that really gets me there though is that earlier this year we sat down and decided that we wanted another one. we agreed to try - just paying attention to timing, etc. nothing so far as fertility clinic stuff. even a month ago, we were still actively following her cycle. again, not activities i would expect if this is something she had decided upon "some time" ago.

male clients? hot chick with outgoing personality who does hair... yeah, she has more than a few.

she doesn't want the stay at home thing, that much i know. when i got to the point that my income could carry us with some comfort i made the offer. it is hard for her to even keep a normal schedule - she loves what she does. end of story. she'll die doing hair.


as i sit back and think on it, if i'm honest about it i'm able to blow through most of her "reasoning" for this decision as pure smokescreen. my gut right now is telling me that she hooked up with someone when she got toasted with the girls last week. rather than deal with feeling guilty and fessing up she is just going to end the marriage -"for my benefit" so i can find someone who loves me the way i love her. that sounds like a huge leap from what you all have read, but with all the little pieces here and our ancient past... it makes sense. sad thing is, that if she just came home and said "i cheated, i'm sorry" i would deal with it and get on with life. but she absolutely refuses to ever be in a position of weakness so that isn't likely. ah, well - it's just my instinct talking anyway.

i don't know if i mentioned it but we are going to see a councelor on Friday. she is just doing it to humor me though. she had the appointment booked just for herself before she dropped the bombshell on me. this is a guy that we met with a year or so ago to help us with communication skills. she walked away from her sessions with him really feeling good about life and came to grips with some of her past issues. if she can keep some semblance of an open mind here it could be a good thing. or i could just be deluding myself.

[glatt]

Lookout, I don't have anything useful to add here, but I just want to let you know how sorry I am. I really hope that going to the counsellor will help you two find your way back to each other. My own biggest fear is losing a loved one. I can only imagine what you must be feeling with the prospect of losing your wife and custody of your son.

I've watched a few people go through divorce. They all make it to the other side. It will suck for a while, but it will get better. But, hopefully you two can avert it.

Good luck, and hang in there.

[lookout123]

all i want back is the life i was thankful for a month ago. is that too much to ask? seriously. i don't need to be rich, famous, good looking, or the smartest guy on the planet. i just want back what i had.

[Elspode]

All of this sounds a little too frighteningly familiar.

Lookout...good luck. Please do float the counseling balloon, it can be highly useful. Failing that, please always remember that *you* are a valuable human being, and take care of yourself fiercely.