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View Poll Results: A human being is...
...bio-automation, organic machinery. 1 20.00%
...sumthiní more than bio-automation, not only organic machinery. 4 80.00%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-08-2019, 06:01 PM   #1
henry quirk
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personhood

Over in the Phliosphy Now Forum a recurring conversation is over the nature of 'person'.

What 'is' a person?

What are the qualities or characteristics of 'person'.

What makes a human being a person?

Why isn't -- for example -- a goldfish a person?

When does a human being become a person?

One fellow over there posted "Foetuses are no(t) "persons" until they are named and certified by live birth." which, as I said is 'one legitimate (and, in my view, flawed) way to look at personhood.'

So: dazzle me with insight & wisdom.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:16 PM   #2
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Person is a label applied from the outside. If you see someone as a person, they are a person. Only your criteria matter in that case. You may not have a structured list of characteristics they must meet. You might just need to feel some empathy toward them.


so .... a Person is someone you can relate to. For whatever reason.


It's really a meaningless adjective because the Object (of 'Personhood') is not in control of the distinction.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:30 PM   #3
henry quirk
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"Person is a label applied from the outside."

So: if I see myself, define myself, as 'person' it's meaningless?
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:38 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
When does a human being become a person?
I think it varies from state to state.

Otherwise, it"s when ya turn 18.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:48 PM   #5
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Personhood requires self-consciousness - being aware of ourselves, and in control of our actions; being able to reason and see why things happen, rather than just experiencing things.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:53 PM   #6
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Personhood requires self-consciousness - being aware of ourselves, and in control of our actions; being able to reason and see why things happen, rather than just experiencing things.
What about the comatose? It can be argued a comatose person isn't conscious on any level.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:57 PM   #7
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But they encourage ya to talk to them...
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:58 PM   #8
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...like houseplants, now that I think about it.
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Old 10-08-2019, 06:58 PM   #9
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OMG!!!

Houseplants are persons!!!
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:08 PM   #10
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conscious, i.e., awake and alert, and consciousness, i.e., the cognitive state of being where you are self-aware etc. are different things. You can be in a dream state and still have consciousness. Call it a sense of selfhood?
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:13 PM   #11
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Don't get me wrong: I think you're on to sumthin' with this...

Quote:
Personhood requires self-consciousness - being aware of ourselves, and in control of our actions; being able to reason and see why things happen, rather than just experiencing things.
...but (again): 'What about the comatose? It can be argued a comatose person isn't conscious on any level.'
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:18 PM   #12
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But they encourage ya to talk to them...
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
So: if I see myself, define myself, as 'person' it's meaningless?

to everyone other than you, yes. You may see yourself as a person, but if I think you're a monster.... then to me....
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:25 PM   #14
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A comatose person is a person with self-consciousness who is currently unconscious.
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:29 PM   #15
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to everyone other than you, yes. You may see yourself as a person, but if I think you're a monster.... then to me....
Well, you can see a campfire as a block of ice but that doesn't make the fire any less searing.

That is: your opinion doesn't overwrite reality.

So: is personhood intrinsic or bestowed (that seems to be the question between us)?
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