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Old 12-02-2018, 10:45 AM   #466
tw
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Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
They will sell you a Bolt for like $38K, with a range of 238 miles per charge.
Due to massive overhead, GM cannot make a profit if they do not sell 50,000 annually. The Corvette has always been a problem due to so few sales.

I was surprised to learn that Bolt can only be sold by a few dealers. At 20,000, it does not and cannot make a profit. Volts sales were also as pathetic.

Because their cars are designed by engineers, for example, Mazda made a profit on the Miyata in its first year at 17,000. Due to the 'economy of scale' myth, GM can never make a profit on sales that tiny. Meaning the Volt and Bolt remain unprofitable.

Ironically the Chevy Cruz. that sells just under 200,000 annually, is also being canceled as unprofitable. Another trophy for The Donald showcase.
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:03 AM   #467
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Tesla dealerships are prohibited by law in Michigan, Texas, Connecticut, Utah, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Wisconsin. They are allowed five dealerships in all of New York State.

That's another reason why I would buy one if I could. Because fuck that.
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:23 AM   #468
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But they're not dealerships are they? They're Tesla showrooms and service centers owned and operated by Tesla? If this becomes legal how long before Toyota and Ford start doing this to enhance their bottom line?
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:36 PM   #469
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We should let LJ weigh in on this, but --

How long before they can freely sell the things they create? (In a free market?)

Anyone should be able to sell anything to anyone, as long as it's legal. It seems to me that many/most car companies will still want the leave the messy business of dealing with the general public to some other... entity.

Tesla's early market is people looking for a car averaging $100K. They are all early adopters; they've drunk the kool-aid. I suspect it will be a very different experience selling to average Josephine -- who walks in, with a credit rating lower than mine, and still wants the premium cupholders (and expects to charge the thing through a wall outlet and an extension cord out the window).
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Old 12-02-2018, 04:59 PM   #470
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It seems to me that many/most car companies will still want the leave the messy business of dealing with the general public to some other... entity.
I'm not so sure

Quote:
Automakers General Motors Corporation (GM) and Chrysler LLC have received $17.4 billion in loans under the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) and have indicated that they may need up to an additional $21.6 billion in federal assistance to restructure their operations. As a condition of the loans, the companies are required to develop plans to achieve profitability. Much attention in the plans has centered on getting labor costs under control.

Among other measures addressed are ways to cut distribution costs. As part of its cost-cutting effort, GM has announced that it will reduce its dealership network from over 6,200 dealers today to 4,100. The cost of the auto distribution system in the United States has been estimated as averaging up to 30 percent of vehicle price. With dealer networks being rationalized as part of cost-cutting initiatives, direct manufacturer sales to car buyers may present an additional opportunity to lower distribution costs.

Such sales might range from consumers’ simply ordering assembled vehicles of their choice directly from automakers to a scenario along the lines of the “Dell Direct” build-to-order model that revolutionized the personal computer production and sale process.

GM initiated a build-to-order sales model in Brazil for its Chevrolet Celta economy car over eight years ago. In 2008, the Celta was among the sales leaders in Brazil. At the time of the Celta’s introduction, an auto analyst said that build-to-order could result in “spectacular improvements in the company’s competitiveness and profitability.”
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:41 AM   #471
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I can envision the day when I can go to Amazon and order a car to my specifications and have it delivered to a dealership nearby. Or perhaps they can deliver to ANY dealer, like ordering tires and having them delivered to my tire shop.

Also, I can see porch pirates moving up to grand theft auto if they deliver to my door and I'm not at home. I dunno how my UPS mail store, who so ably handles my packages for me, would handle THAT!
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:13 PM   #472
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I can envision the day when I can go to Amazon and order a car to my specifications and have it delivered to a dealership nearby. Or perhaps they can deliver to ANY dealer, like ordering tires and having them delivered to my tire shop.

Also, I can see porch pirates moving up to grand theft auto if they deliver to my door and I'm not at home. I dunno how my UPS mail store, who so ably handles my packages for me, would handle THAT!
Your dream has come true!
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:06 AM   #473
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That's used cars though.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:17 AM   #474
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That's used cars though.
Yabbut. Online shopping(!), plus they bring the car to your door (or send a token to get it out of a vending machine). You get a week to decide if you like it, and they'll take your old car in trade. How nutty is that?



And in my own personal opinion, buying a new car is a losing deal - the car loses value the second you drive it off the lot, and insurance companies don't give a rat's ass if you wreck it on the way home from the dealership - you will NOT get full replacement value.

When you buy a "certified" used car, the vehicle has presumably been gone over by a crew of professional repair dudes, you can research typical problems with that particular make/model, and check costs against other similar vehicles sold in your area (price comparison tools), thereby ensuring that you're not paying too much for a decent vehicle.

You know, if I ever thought I would need another vehicle, I'd definitely consider this service. My Chevy Silverado (285,000 miles) and Volvo station wagon (82,000 miles) are both 20 years old and in excellent condition. I fully expect them both to outlive me, but if they don't, I'd definitely do some research on the Carvana webite.

Last edited by Glinda; 12-07-2018 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:55 AM   #475
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With Chevy's new design your old Silverado's value just went way up!
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:24 AM   #476
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Yabbut. Online shopping(!), plus they bring the car to your door (or send a token to get it out of a vending machine). You get a week to decide if you like it, and they'll take your old car in trade. How nutty is that?
Fine but keep in mind you're paying for all that, plus buying a car sight unseen.
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When you buy a "certified" used car, the vehicle has presumably been gone over by a crew of professional repair dudes, you can research typical problems with that particular make/model, and check costs against other similar vehicles sold in your area (price comparison tools), thereby ensuring that you're not paying too much for a decent vehicle.
Professional repair dudes know what they have to take care of, and what can be hidden so it won't be a problem until it's your problem. You're still buying a pig in a poke for probably more money than a private sale, but if you trust them, and you're willing to pay for the convenience, that's cool.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:39 PM   #477
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With Chevy's new design your old Silverado's value just went way up!
Heh. I think EVERY full-size truck's value just went up. Honestly, the new Silverado exterior is awful.

2020 Chevy Silverado HD is 910 pound-feet of ugly



As for my Silverado, I wouldn't sell this thing for any amount of money! In my opinion, the older Silverados are some of the toughest, longest-lasting, always dependable trucks ever made. Mine has a nearly indestructible 350 vortec engine, the body doesn't have a lick of rust, starts first time every time, takes me up and down crazy gravel roads in any weather, it's got a hauling package so I can load it to the gills and it doesn't falter or complain, it just keeps going. Other than regular maintenance and the occasional renew/repair job (I did have the steering replaced a few years ago), it has been reliably worry-free.

If my truck somehow died, I'd absolutely buy an exact duplicate.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:51 PM   #478
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Fine but keep in mind you're paying for all that, plus buying a car sight unseen.
Professional repair dudes know what they have to take care of, and what can be hidden so it won't be a problem until it's your problem. You're still buying a pig in a poke for probably more money than a private sale, but if you trust them, and you're willing to pay for the convenience, that's cool.
But you have a week to like it or send it back. That means (as you should do when buying ANY used car), you research the make/model first, choose the one you like, then take it to your own mechanic and have him give it a good going over.

Enh. It's all theoretical anyway, since my two vehicles are going to last at least as long as I do.
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:29 PM   #479
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Remember the old square-bodied pre-1987 Chevy/GMC pick-em-up-trucks?

I used to joke that, because they were made for so long, you could set one on fire, push it over a cliff into a pond, then come back a year later and $500 would put that sumbitch back on the road.

As long as ya didn't mind holes in your cab corners.

And the rocker panels.

And the bedsides.

And the bed.
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:17 PM   #480
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Remember the old square-bodied pre-1987 Chevy/GMC pick-em-up-trucks?

I used to joke that, because they were made for so long, you could set one on fire, push it over a cliff into a pond, then come back a year later and $500 would put that sumbitch back on the road.
I still see those old trucks on the road all the time, out here. They're usually pretty beat up, but they're still rolling and that's saying something.
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