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Old 10-07-2006, 06:31 PM   #16
xoxoxoBruce
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I can understand the shirts, CDs and paraphanalia...replace the stuff they now covet with new stuff they can covet. After all, it's easier to guide them to the right fork in the road, than it is to get them out of their car.

That said, I've got a big problem with these whip 'em into a frenzy, theatrical tactics. They are very effective if you want to start a war or lynch somebody, but really unfair to teens that are soooo susceptible to the mob hysteria peer pressure.

I don't think that's an acceptable way to present the pros and cons of the choice to follow Christ's teachings or not.

Apparently, they feel it's ok as part of the religion business though. Smart too, like the first time you get drunk, high, or orgasm, it'll never feel quite as good again and you'll probably remember it fondly. Same for these kids being whipped into a hysteria and they'll associate the adrenaline rush of the mob with Religion. Remember Christian sects aren't the only ones that do this, though.
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Old 10-07-2006, 07:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce
I can understand the shirts, CDs and paraphanalia...replace the stuff they now covet with new stuff they can covet. After all, it's easier to guide them to the right fork in the road, than it is to get them out of their car.

That said, I've got a big problem with these whip 'em into a frenzy, theatrical tactics. They are very effective if you want to start a war or lynch somebody, but really unfair to teens that are soooo susceptible to the mob hysteria peer pressure.

I don't think that's an acceptable way to present the pros and cons of the choice to follow Christ's teachings or not.

Apparently, they feel it's ok as part of the religion business though. Smart too, like the first time you get drunk, high, or orgasm, it'll never feel quite as good again and you'll probably remember it fondly. Same for these kids being whipped into a hysteria and they'll associate the adrenaline rush of the mob with Religion. Remember Christian sects aren't the only ones that do this, though.
true story bruce

by the way what the freak was that you left on my blogspot haha
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Old 10-07-2006, 08:33 PM   #18
xoxoxoBruce
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I don't remember...I probably just shit and left.
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Old 10-07-2006, 08:44 PM   #19
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Old 10-07-2006, 11:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt
The amount of money and gold and crap that goes into the Vatican alone just disgusts me. Just looking at Jesus's ministry, it makes perfect sense that he would much rather we have spent all that on feeding the hungry, and healing disease instead of flowing ornate robes and other junk.
Mostly, they hoard it. Relatively little goes into the robes and trappings.

I do seem to recall that most priests have a personal chalice, though, usually purchased by their families at the time of their ordination.

I attended mass at a friend's parish with his family quite a bit following his death (I was there on a lot of Saturday nights, so I went along). I was quite interested to see a plain clay cup, pitchers, and plate used for the communion offering. First time I'd ever seen that ... my childhood parish was heavy duty traditional Italian neighborhood Roman Catholic and they had a gold chalice you could stun an ox with.
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Old 10-08-2006, 12:05 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by wolf
Mostly, they hoard it. Relatively little goes into the robes and trappings.

I do seem to recall that most priests have a personal chalice, though, usually purchased by their families at the time of their ordination.

I attended mass at a friend's parish with his family quite a bit following his death (I was there on a lot of Saturday nights, so I went along). I was quite interested to see a plain clay cup, pitchers, and plate used for the communion offering. First time I'd ever seen that ... my childhood parish was heavy duty traditional Italian neighborhood Roman Catholic and they had a gold chalice you could stun an ox with.
I was using those as examples, but you're exactly right.. its just disgusting and abhorrent.
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Old 10-08-2006, 08:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt
Sorry Bri I should have said more than one word.. in my opinion, a "real" Christian should be focused on helping other people in all walks of life. Jesus's whole ministry was healing and teaching about love and forgiveness. To me, Catholics have become way too caught up in the religion of Christianity, the cermonies and rituals, etc., and kind of lose the whole message Jesus was giving.
Thank you for the hate. I'd like to personally apologize to you for all the Catholic charities, hospitals, and schools around world. I'm not a big fan of ostentation either whether its found in cathedrals, megachurches, or on someones back or wrist, so I won't defend that. I go to a small, plain, country Catholic church in a gold-free environment (inside secret most of the shiney stuff is just base metals). The Catholic Church had a major upheaval two of your life-times ago addressing many of your complaints, sorry you missed it. There is still a see-saw effect going on as parish communities try to figure out what are respectful trappings for His house. Much of what we base that on is aesthetics and familiarity. I was raised in the post-Vatican II Church so I prefer the simple. I'm tending to this mote in my eye.

Sometimes what we find phoney is what we don't know or understand. That is Panglosses reaction to the Times pictures or honestly my reaction to my first exposure to White Southern Baptist preaching. The teens in that picture are looking for someting bigger than themselves and something better than American pop culture. From experience, (we Catholics have our charismatics as well) some of them will burn out pretty quick lacking a serious grounding in the church but some will form a lasting bond and may even change their lives.
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Old 10-08-2006, 09:36 AM   #23
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I don't really see the problem with creating exciting experiences for Christian children and teens to keep them within their parents' faith. I've mentioned elsewhere that my first experience of going to a festival was a Christian one. There is NO way my parents would have let me go to a secular music festival at that age (quite rightly).

Of course being a British it was reasonably low key (Jesus loves you, we love Jesus, hey it would be cool if you loved him too) but it was a wonderful experience to be able to talk openly about faith, God, worship etc. Less fun was being woken up by the Norwegian singing group near us at their morning worship, but at least no-one tripped over my guy ropes and was sick on my tent as happened in later years at Reading (non-secular!)

Non Christian parents are happy enough to celebrate Christmas, calling it a special time, a time for peace and love, a time to put other people before yourself etc etc etc. They are not celebrating the birth of Christ, not attending worship. They do not use advent to prepare their hearts and minds for the coming of Christ (chocolate advent calendars?) But it is seen as acceptable.

So Christian teens get music and hysteria without drugs, booze and sex. So the identify themselves by their dress code, except what their t shirts are promoting isn't a brand name but their faith. So they feel they belong, not to a group of kids who follow eachother, but to a global religion.

Good for them. Teens will get fanatical, whether it's about music, clothes, film stars, alternative lifestyles or Jesus. If they've chosen to follow Christ why shouldn't they have their fun in their own way.

Oh and btw - in Britain the Catholic church so isn't into the old gold & ostentation. Henry VIII took all our best churches way back when. We have brick ones on the local estates built by the communities. And the Catholics I know give plenty to charity, including their time and effort as well as money. Don't get me wrong - I love a bit of gilt & incense, but that's not the Church I grew up in.
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Old 10-08-2006, 01:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt
Sorry Bri I should have said more than one word.. in my opinion, a "real" Christian should be focused on helping other people in all walks of life. ....I did not mean to offend you Bri and I apologize, I just have a very simplistic faith and viewpoint as to what followers of Christ should look like and do.
Thanks for the apology, Bullitt--my mother is just such a Christian as you describe--after all, Mother Theresa was a Catholic! My mother is a faithful, kind, generous rosary-saying woman who tries more than a lot of people I know to follow in Jesus' footsteps. She never judges people; she would never say a fellow Christian (or anyone else for that matter--she believes God is the only Judge) was doomed to hell for 'this reason' or 'that reason' but I know the Protestants think Catholics are damned. I certainly hope there's a lot of room in hell...

Do you think Mother Theresa is in hell???
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Old 10-08-2006, 01:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna
So, it's NOT just that you must be Christian--you must subscibe to YOUR brand of Christian. OH, I see! If noodle means a certain type of Christianity, he should say so. Stupid of me to imagine all followers of Christ and the New Testament would be considered Christians, eh?

Must be nice to be all saved and everything.
that is far from the case Bri. denominational differences are largely irrelevant. most (not all) folks who stand on the "my denomination is better than yours" pedestal subscribe to a religion. that is not the same thing as being a follower of Christ. Jesus isn't a baptist, methodist, catholic, etc. He is God. some folks choose to follow Him as such, regardless of worship style. some are more concerned with following church by laws. it has always been that way and probably always will.
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Old 10-08-2006, 01:21 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Brianna
Thanks for the apology, Bullitt--my mother is just such a Christian as you describe--after all, Mother Theresa was a Catholic! My mother is a faithful, kind, generous rosary-saying woman who tries more than a lot of people I know to follow in Jesus' footsteps. She never judges people; she would never say a fellow Christian (or anyone else for that matter--she believes God is the only Judge) was doomed to hell for 'this reason' or 'that reason' but I know the Protestants think Catholics are damned. I certainly hope there's a lot of room in hell...

Do you think Mother Theresa is in hell???
No ma'am I do not. She was the epitome of how Christians ought to see the world: Love your neighbor. Period.
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Old 10-08-2006, 01:27 PM   #27
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Sorry for all the touchiness on the subject--I hung out with Southern Baptists for a while (bout three years) and they always told me that my mom was going to their hell for being a Catholic no matter how good she was. They urged my whole family to get "saved". Really stuck in my craw.

I hung out at this church because at the time I was in therapy; my therapist was a SB and she told me all my problems could be solved by being 'saved' in her church and that I needed these church folk to 'guide' me. I DID go to many Bible classes and services and women's gatherings and even Emmaus (which WAS pretty cool) but I saw so much there I could not accept that I didn't stay.

Last edited by Trilby; 10-08-2006 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 10-09-2006, 11:51 AM   #28
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Jesus isn't a baptist, methodist, catholic, etc. He is God.
That presupposes that such entities as "Jesus" and "God" actually exist.

I can't go there. My mom surely tried her damndest, however. To this day she is "dissapointed" in me, and never misses a moment to tell me so. I could run a shelter for the homeless and she would still be "dissapointed" simply because I don't suscribe to her religion. Thanks, mom.

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Oh. Bullit. Are you the Bullit from the movie, you know, the Steve McQueen movie?

I'm currently enjoying Lalo Schifrin's soundtrack score from that movie...pretty cool stuff.
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Old 10-09-2006, 11:56 AM   #29
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BTW, most churches use only 10-15% of their take on charity, & that is liberal. Most goes to "administrative fees".
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:25 PM   #30
Bullitt
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Originally Posted by Pangloss62
Oh. Bullit. Are you the Bullit from the movie, you know, the Steve McQueen movie?

I'm currently enjoying Lalo Schifrin's soundtrack score from that movie...pretty cool stuff.
It's pretty much my favorite movie of all time (I would kill for his car).. but The Great Escape comes dang close. I'm a big fan of Steve McQueen and old war movies in general (The Longest Day, A Bridge Too Far, Bridge Over the River Kwai, Lawrence of Arabia, stuff like that). Any reccomendations?
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