Chemical Dependency/Illness or weakness

[mrnoodle]

ephedrin ain't allowed in over-the-counter medicine any more in CO.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher

It's the social issue in most cases.

Is is a social issue or is it a biological issue?


IMO, if it was a biological cause then all children of all alcoholics/addicts would be addicted, but we don't see that. Even children with the same parents, some may addict, some don't. So it can't be (purely) biological. any moreso than murder's children going on to murder other people is purely biological.

The fact is, we can't be sure if it's biological or if it's social. We know for a fact that social causes are at work here; our society glamorizes drinking and in many cases, drug abuse. Our society says "it's ok" to imbibe, but then when people get addicted they are excused with "oh, it's biological".

It's a choice to drink. It is a choice to continue drinking. When faced with continuing to drink or going through withdrawl, most opt to continue. It's a harder choice to detox, obviously no one wants to suffer through the pain and symptoms, or trying to get their shit together to make better choices about their whole lifestyle (dealing with the issues they started taking drugs or drinking to get away from).

It's all about choice and personal responsibility.


edit:
If it was biologically impossible to quit, then no one could....

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Is is a social issue or is it a biological issue?

It's both, and more.

Some people are predisposed to a physical chemical dependency, should they ever imbibe alcohol or other chemicals.

Some people are predisposed to a psychological chemical dependency, should they ever imbibe alcohol or other chemicals.

Some people, after imbibing said chemicals decide to forgo continued imbibing.

Some people, after imbibing said chemicals decide to continue imbibing.

People continue because they lack the willpower to stop.

Some people lack the willpower because the physical addiction is overwhelming.

Some people lack the willpower because the psychological addiction is overwhelming.

There is help for both.

[Brett's Honey]

Originally Posted by Brianna

They are thinking of passing a law here in OH to limit the amount of sudafed you can buy in a month. Anything like that in CO??

Meth is a HUGE problem here in Oklahoma. Over a year ago they passed a law limiting the amount of cold & sinus medication that you can buy, and you also have to sign a log book, giving the date, amount purchased (which is limited), and your name and address. (Already, a drugstore is in big trouble, - their log book clearly shows several of the same people buying illegal quantities of sinus meds over and over in a short period of time. Not sure what the time limit is...)
Before that law passed, there were also new laws passed on purchasing fertilizer containing anhydrous ammonia. Only farmers with legitimate a use for it can buy it. And farmers have had to go to great lengths to lock it up. A few farmers have shot people, and been shot over meth "cooks" trying to steal the fertilizer. A few police officers have been shot & killed during routine traffic stops when they've pulled over a van converted into a "travelling meth lab".
I had thought that in our particular town, the refinery was a major source of the problem. A lot of the refinery work is contracted out, so workers from out of town companies are always here, and they work a lot of jobs that are 7 days a week, 12 hour days. The local people that I've been most shocked to learn that do meth, or used to do it, started it while working long hours, 7 days a week, spending a lot more of their time with co-workers than with friends and family. And lots of times the meth gets quite a hold on people and they just cannot seem to get away from it.
A local sheriff said that this county does have one of the worst problems with meth in the state, but the entire state is pretty bad.
And I see the results - some deaths, a lot of divorces, lost jobs, friendships, homes, etc......Unfortunately, it seems that most people really have to hit rock bottom before they manage to give it up.

[Trilby]

It's about brain chemistry and obsession. It does NOT feel like a "choice" to those so afflicted. You suppose addicts LIKE what is happening?

[Brett's Honey]

Originally Posted by Brianna

It's about brain chemistry and obsession. It does NOT feel like a "choice" to those so afflicted. You suppose addicts LIKE what is happening?

Once they move past denying that there's a problem, and actually figure out what is happening, I cannot imagine that anyone would LIKE it. I do feel like it's a fact that there are times when choices are made - and that would be the first few times when a person does the drug.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's always a choice but as you progress the wrong choice looks more and more rational, more like the right choice.

[Happy Monkey]

When the decision-making part of the brain gets corrupted, how do you make decisions?

[404Error]

Then it's mind over matter...once your mind is corrupted with drugs or alcohol, it don't matter anymore.

Kind of like sex, when one heads over rules the other.

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by Brett's Honey

Once they move past denying that there's a problem, and actually figure out what is happening, I cannot imagine that anyone would LIKE it. I do feel like it's a fact that there are times when choices are made - and that would be the first few times when a person does the drug.

No, it is more like whwn a doctor tells a person he will die in a year, if they continue to smoke. 6 months later you see that same person smoking with an oxygen tank strapped to their wheelchair... The bottom line is unless you are addicted to psychoactive drugs, you will never fully understand the physical and psychological craving that an alcoholic/addict goes through.....Think of one vice you may have. wheteher, it be chocolate, sex, etc..... Think about never doing it again..... I know the average person thinks this analogy is absurd, but think about the one thing you like more than anything in the world, whatever it is and never being able to have the positive sensation again........ You know what, if your not addicted or you will still not be able to comprehend it.....

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It's always a choice but as you progress the wrong choice looks more and more rational, more like the right choice.

A person who is chronically addicted, most likely knows the choice to use their drug of choice is irrational. However, without detox, the physical and psychological craving is to much to bear. Why would a pregnant mother smoke crack the same day she is to give birth? There are stages with addiction, just like stage with cancer and other diseases. An addict can go into remission, then relapse and die. I've seen this numerous times. A person can work a program of their choice and stay sober for years. However, it appears once they quit that program, they are apt to relapse. After being detoxed, or becoming sober in whatever way, it is a choice when the addict uses again.....
I will never disagree with that. That is why so many people have a problem with calling adiction to psychoactive drugs a disease.....
An alcoholic or addict has to want to be clean/sober more than they want to be high for sobriety to work. If they ever lose that, it is just amatter of time before relapse.......

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Is is a social issue or is it a biological issue?


IMO, if it was a biological cause then all children of all alcoholics/addicts would be addicted, but we don't see that. Even children with the same parents, some may addict, some don't. So it can't be (purely) biological. any moreso than murder's children going on to murder other people is purely biological.

The fact is, we can't be sure if it's biological or if it's social. We know for a fact that social causes are at work here; our society glamorizes drinking and in many cases, drug abuse. Our society says "it's ok" to imbibe, but then when people get addicted they are excused with "oh, it's biological".

It's a choice to drink. It is a choice to continue drinking. When faced with continuing to drink or going through withdrawl, most opt to continue. It's a harder choice to detox, obviously no one wants to suffer through the pain and symptoms, or trying to get their shit together to make better choices about their whole lifestyle (dealing with the issues they started taking drugs or drinking to get away from).

It's all about choice and personal responsibility.


edit:
If it was biologically impossible to quit, then no one could....

Addiction is a biological, psychological, and social issue. The thing with addiction, is sorta like the argument beteween christianity and secularism.
It is a very complex issue. Non-addicted do not understand; just like a christian can't understand why others don't follow their way to peace. A secular person thinks the christian is ignorant and chooses to find peace in their own way. However, with addiction there is much more scientific fact to back up the biological view. It is not impossible to quit. There are people who have been addicted, quit and never used again until their death......

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

It's both, and more.

Some people are predisposed to a physical chemical dependency, should they ever imbibe alcohol or other chemicals.

Some people are predisposed to a psychological chemical dependency, should they ever imbibe alcohol or other chemicals.

Some people, after imbibing said chemicals decide to forgo continued imbibing.

Some people, after imbibing said chemicals decide to continue imbibing.

People continue because they lack the willpower to stop.

Some people lack the willpower because the physical addiction is overwhelming.

Some people lack the willpower because the psychological addiction is overwhelming.

There is help for both.

I agree with most of what you had to say. I won't state my views on willpower. However, if you ever find yourself in a 12 step meeting, choose your words carefully. The reason being, in all the 12 step meetings i'm aware of, their belief is in a "higher power". The word willpower is a nasty word.
12 step meetings do not preach a religion and they are not kosher to a ceratain religion being discussed. However, they are firm belivers in spirituality....

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher

I agree with most of what you had to say. I won't state my views on willpower. However, if you ever find yourself in a 12 step meeting, choose your words carefully. The reason being, in all the 12 step meetings i'm aware of, their belief is in a "higher power". The word willpower is a nasty word.
12 step meetings do not preach a religion and they are not kosher to a ceratain religion being discussed. However, they are firm belivers in spirituality....

Thanks

The whole AA thing reminds me of a true bottom in a B&D relationship. They draw true empowerment and fulfillment from sublimating their will to that of someone else's.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher

Error, I dont' claim to be an expert on anything. I am definetly sorry for your misfortune of spending 20 years with psychopaths.

404 is the one who spent 20 years with criminals. I'm the one working on spending 20 years with psychopaths.