The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Politics

Politics Where we learn not to think less of others who don't share our views

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2003, 11:21 AM   #1
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Arrow Georgism

I've invited someone from another board to come in here to discuss Georgism.

They label themselves as a follower of "classic liberalism" and claim Georgism supports their beliefs. Of course they are full of crap.

For those of you who don't know, Georgists stupidly try to draw an imaginary line of separation between property that is created by the labor of people and that which isn't. They think legitimate land OWNERS who enjoy increased property value due to changes in their area or who speculate and invest in property are thieves and they should give their profits to some imaginary entity known as "the community" as though a "community" had rights, and those rights were above those of individuals.

The simple and undeniable truth is that classic liberalism (libertarianism) holds property ownership (regardless of how the property was created) as the most sacred of all rights because property ownership is where our rights stem from.

Georgism is nothing more than socialism which means it's the exact opposite of libertarianism and therefore the exact opposite of freedom itself.
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 12:00 PM   #2
dave
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Radar!

While you're here... your thoughts on the CA recall? Maybe start a new thread about it?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 12:49 PM   #3
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Quote:
While you're here... your thoughts on the CA recall?
I'm for it.
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 12:51 PM   #4
juju
no one of consequence
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,839
Well, if they do come, I look forward to an unbiased description. It does seem interesting.
juju is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 12:59 PM   #5
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
They want to duke it out on another forum. I invited them here. But if they come, their opinion will hardly be unbiased as a follower of that philosophy.

This idiot calls himself a geo-libertarian-green. That's as stupid as the retards who call themselves libertarian-socialists. Libertarianism and socialism are exact opposites.

He can call himself a purpleheaded pud pounder for all I care. The facts speak for themselves and there is no distinction between owning property created by nature and property created by the labor of mankind. This is true in all forms of libertarianism including "classic liberalism"
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 01:26 PM   #6
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,053
Are you gonna vote for that Ned Roscoe?
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 01:32 PM   #7
juju
no one of consequence
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,839
Why is it that, when describing something strange and foreign, people often prefix it with the word 'that'?
juju is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 01:56 PM   #8
Torrere
a real smartass
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 1,121
The community has no rights?

Do you support any form of social organization?
Torrere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 02:23 PM   #9
AdanSmith
Dog O'Nine Tails
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 20
Quote:
The facts speak for themselves and there is no distinction between owning property created by nature and property created by the labor of mankind. This is true in all forms of libertarianism including "classic liberalism"
"Both ground-rents and the ordinary rent of land are a species of revenue which the owner, in many cases, enjoys without any care or attention of his own. Though a part of this revenue should be taken from him in order to defray the expenses of the state, no discouragement will thereby be given to any sort of industry....Ground-rents and the ordinary rent of land are, therefore, perhaps, the species of revenue which can best bear to have a peculiar tax imposed upon them." -- Adam Smith
AdanSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 04:03 PM   #10
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Quote:
Are you gonna vote for that Ned Roscoe?
Yes.

Quote:
Do you support any form of social organization?
Sure, it's nice to see clubs, bowling leagues, etc. But a group of individuals has no more rights than a single individual whether they call themselves a club, a town, a city, a county, a state, or a federal government.
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 05:00 PM   #11
Torrere
a real smartass
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 1,121
One way to look at it might be as a group of people pooling a portion of their rights. It is difficult to wrap your mind around the rights of all of the people in, say, the Ravenna District. It is easier to perceive all of their rights as a conglomeration: the rights of the Ravenna District. In this way, their rights together appear almost as large as they ought to, and hence are more difficult to trample.

If you say: the Ravenna District has no rights, but the people in it do have rights, it is easier to trample their rights. It is too difficult to account for the rights of all of the people living in the Ravenna District seperately.

btw: clever nick, Adan
Torrere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 05:06 PM   #12
AdanSmith
Dog O'Nine Tails
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 20
do we not all have equall access rights to air?
AdanSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 07:20 PM   #13
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
We have a right to air, but hold no ownership of it. We have no right to land and aren't entitled to a single inch of it if we don't earn it.
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 08:02 PM   #14
Torrere
a real smartass
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 1,121
No, we clearly do not all have equal access rights to air. Only an idiot who doesn't understand that not all air is equal would think that. Does someone living on a river that is buried in trash and pollutants have equal access to water as someone living on a clean lake? Does someone who lives in Mexico City have equal access to air as someone living in Tibet? Does someone working day by day deep in an old corporate office have equal access to air as someone skiing down the fresh powder slopes of Schwietzer Mountain?

Hell no!


--
Radar, are you taking the opposite line now that you did in your original post?

Last edited by Torrere; 09-29-2003 at 08:18 PM.
Torrere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2003, 10:05 PM   #15
ThisOleMiss
Resident President
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Very, very, rural Mississippi
Posts: 83
Here's an idea for all you liberal types out there: If you don't own property, you don't get to vote on any bond issue that will raise property taxes.

I am sick to death of having a bunch of apartment dwellers vote to raise property taxes because they don't think it's going to effect them. And then they get upset when their rent goes up!
Nothing like an informed voter!

Maggie M...
__________________
Why kill them when you can make them live and suffer?
ThisOleMiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:50 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.