The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Current Events

Current Events Help understand the world by talking about things happening in it

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-11-2011, 11:19 AM   #1
squirell nutkin
has a second hand user title
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: in a Nut House
Posts: 2,016
Fuck Political Correctness, I mean WTF?

Crowe removes, apologizes for anti-circumcision Tweets

I've got an idea, let's start a club where we all cut the ends of our dicks off to prove that we love FSM and that FSM loves us more than everybody else.

And we'll make anyone who doesn't like the idea feel bad for disagreeing with us.

FFS It's not like he's friggin' Mel Gibson.
__________________
And now I'm finished posting.
squirell nutkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 02:36 PM   #2
infinite monkey
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 13,002
Hmmph. Of course, another MAN's club. You sexist racist hypoallergenicphobic MAN.
infinite monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 04:09 PM   #3
Sundae
polaroid of perfection
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 24,185
I disregard anything labelled Political Correctness.

Mostly the term is used a broad slur applied to anything that the average white-van-driving-Joe-Bloggs in the street does not believe in. In any tabloid article about PC, you can guarantee the Tax Payers Alliance will be quoted (in English papers at least).

I've seen multi-culturalism in action - so-called political correctness had nothing to do with it.

Can you believe that these days your daughter's boss isn't allowed to slap her on the arse, suggest she works after hours and claim she's lucky? Or suggest that Tulip should wear pyjamas to work, like her parents did. Or that when Clod's son grows up he'll still be a complete spacker! Ha ha ha! It's PC gone mad!

A lot of what was labelled "PC" (and had nothing to do with politics, then and now) ten years ago now seems abhorrent to many people. And rightly so. We are not moving towards Orwell's narrowing of expression as in 1984, we are moving towards understanding and compassion. There will be blips along the way. Ridiculousness, dead ends, personal agendas.

But cases where "sensitivities" have gone too far (just to use common nomenclature) are few and far between once you actually look into them. In places where the worst apparent offences against common sense happen, there are usually extenuating circumstances. And the rest are simply mis-reported or seriously skewed. Which is why The Telegraph - aka The Torygraph - only rarely picks up stories from the Hate Mail; although they are not immune to band-wagon jumping.

Still - I'm anti-circumcision.
Male and especially female.

The former is unnecessary imho.
The latter is ridiculously cruel.
And no, I don't give a damn if it's a cultural tradition. I'd rather have whole tribes die from high cholesterol after being introduced to Big Mac & Fries than sanction pre-pubescent girls having their clitoris removed and their labia sewn together.

That's nothing to do with "political correctness" in my world. Because I am not a politician. Or anyone who has to appease a large section of society to earn my wages. Mercenary correctness might be a more appropriate word (as in ther dictionary definition, not the Dwellar)
__________________
Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac
Sundae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 04:20 PM   #4
Pico and ME
Are you knock-kneed?
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Middle Hoosierland
Posts: 3,549
@ Sundae -->


Quote:
Mostly the term is used a broad slur applied to anything that the average white-van-driving-Joe-Bloggs in the street does not believe in.
Yup.
Pico and ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 06:23 PM   #5
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,688
Fuck me that was well said Sundae. You da woman girlfriend.
__________________
Quote:
There's only so much punishment a man can take in pursuit of punani. - Sundae
http://sites.google.com/site/danispoetry/
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 07:16 PM   #6
Meursault
Cantankerous Incantonator
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: n tx
Posts: 56
there are two things that bother me about 'political correctness'. the first is that it involves double-standards, handing out different penalties for, or at least different interpretations of, the same act, depending upon who the actors are. the second is that it is often in practice relativistic, inasmuch as the 'interpretation' comes from the "perception" of the participants. looked at harder, these are kind of the same thing, and in any case are incompatible with 'rule of law', creating a might-makes-right world i want nothing to do with. just as motives are irrelevant in determining the veracity of a claim, so is identity irrelevant in determining either guilt or penalty.
__________________
Please exercise caution --costume mask and chest plate are not protective; cape does not enable wearer to fly.
Meursault is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 07:45 PM   #7
richlevy
King Of Wishful Thinking
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 6,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundae View Post

Still - I'm anti-circumcision.
Male and especially female.

The former is unnecessary imho.
The latter is ridiculously cruel.
I completely agree about female 'circumcision'. It is actually genital mutilation.

Male circumcision, however, is simply the removal of excess skin. It is nowhere in the same degree as female circumcision. It is also not strictly a religious custom. I know health professionals are split on the benefits of the procedure, but I don't think that there is an overwhelming consensus against it.

Of course, I am biased. Personally, I like my trim and sporty look. And I think you would too if I wasn't happily monogamous.

BTW, is calling you a saucy English babe considered un-politically correct noting that I did not use the term 'tart' or 'wench'?
__________________
Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE!
I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama
richlevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 07:56 PM   #8
gvidas
Hoodoo Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 286
Expressing an opinion is inevitably going to lead to some people disagreeing with you. Which is probably okay. That friction is how we learn, grow, etc. Handling that friction is a great place to show your humanity.

I can't remember if it was Ta-Nehisi Coates or Coke Talk (or somewhere else), but not long ago I ran across a great summary of the fine line that hate speech and political correctness walk.

The gist of it, as I took it:

If the language that you use clearly causes somebody pain and suffering, and that is not your intent, then you should probably use other words.

Beyond that, it's really a question of nuance. Of recognizing the intent behind language, and addressing that.

More to the point, fuck circumcision.
gvidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 08:49 PM   #9
casimendocina
Professor
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,622
Circumcision aside (BTW, not in favour, but my strongest views on this would be directed at female circumcision for the same reasons as cited by Sundae)

Russell Crowe is a great actor, but a dickhead.
casimendocina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 08:59 PM   #10
squirell nutkin
has a second hand user title
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: in a Nut House
Posts: 2,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlevy View Post
I completely agree about female 'circumcision'. It is actually genital mutilation.

Male circumcision, however, is NOT simply the removal of "excess" skin. While it is nowhere in the same degree as female circumcision, it is still actually genital mutilation.
FTFY
Let's call a spade a spade. Would that I had enough excess to spare and not miss it.

I'd like to see if you opted for the procedure at your age now, conscious and w/o anesthesia. We'd see how simple it really is. It's barbaric and stupid.

I am sorry that Crowe felt pressured to apologize for his opinions because it offended a group of people who disagreed with him.
__________________
And now I'm finished posting.
squirell nutkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 11:21 PM   #11
richlevy
King Of Wishful Thinking
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 6,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirell nutkin View Post
I'd like to see if you opted for the procedure at your age now, conscious and w/o anesthesia. We'd see how simple it really is. It's barbaric and stupid.
Have you ever witnessed a circumcision? When done correctly it takes about 10 seconds, so yes, I can imagine having it done on myself as an adult. Also, why no topical anesthetic? Suffering is not part of any requirement.

Adults do get circumcised.
__________________
Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE!
I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama
richlevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 08:16 AM   #12
casimendocina
Professor
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,622
Should add in here (I think it was Obama who said something along these lines) that we may disagree but at least we have a forum where we can disagree with each other without anyone being dragged off to the cells or the torture chamber....now let's move to the politics thread.
casimendocina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 08:35 AM   #13
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,688
I don't think it's 'political correctness' that made him remove his tweets and apologise. More likely the realisation that insulting large swathes of potential fans and sparking a twitter debate that could only ever show him in negative terms might not be the best career move for a man whose career depends on the public's willingness to accept him.

I have very few opinions on male circumcision.It's not as big a thing over here as it is over in the States I think. I don't know enough about the apparent health benefits. My gut reaction is that it seems a damn strange thing to do to a boy. I don't understand it. I don't particularly approve of it. I certainly don't approve of it as a religious rite. If someone can prove health benefits that's well and good, but the big man in the sky wants you to cut off a piece from a baby? That sits ill with me.

That said: it was a stupid place to make such comments. I daresay that some people might find my above comments about the man in the sky a little offensive and consider it belittles their very real faith. But I am saying this on a board frequented mainly by regulars who know my views on faith. What I am not doing is standing atop a prominent place and shouting to the entire world my opinion on faith. Aside from it being a stupid place to make such comments, the comments themselves were designed to be aggressively offensive to anybody reading them who might actually subscribe to such a faith. Along with insulting any parent who might consider the act for their children.

He was deliberately provocative and insulting to a large contingent of twitter users, and whilst he should absolutely have a legal right to do so, and should absolutely not face any kind of legal sanction, it is entirely the right of the twitter community to self-police and give him a written slap. he responded to that written slap by withdrawing his comments and choosing not to cause further offence.

If you really want to take someone to task about their beliefs being downright rude and insulting about them is probably not the most effective tactic.
__________________
Quote:
There's only so much punishment a man can take in pursuit of punani. - Sundae
http://sites.google.com/site/danispoetry/
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 09:53 AM   #14
richlevy
King Of Wishful Thinking
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 6,652
I have similar feelings when I watch Bill Maher. While he and I agree politically, his very public views on religion turn me off. It's not so much as his being positive about his atheism, it's a matter of his negativity about others religious views.

In some ways, it allows me to appreciate the dilemma of my friends on the right who might agree with guys like Santorum on taxes or foreign policy, and then watch him open his mouth on social and religious issues and feel like they've had a bucket of cold water thrown on them.

What I feel about religion and politics is that it is much better to say or express how good your side is than to denigrate the other side. I have seen 'hate walls' in some places with rows of anti-Obama, anti-liberal rhetoric. My belief is that someone obsessing so much about the opposition is simply an indicator of how weak their side is.

I have the same position when I do business with someone. If I'm asking about their services and all they can tell me is how crooked their competitors are, I will shop elsewhere.
__________________
Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE!
I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama
richlevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 12:05 PM   #15
casimendocina
Professor
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
I don't think it's 'political correctness' that made him remove his tweets and apologise. More likely the realisation that insulting large swathes of potential fans and sparking a twitter debate that could only ever show him in negative terms might not be the best career move for a man whose career depends on the public's willingness to accept him...He was deliberately provocative and insulting to a large contingent of twitter users, and whilst he should absolutely have a legal right to do so, and should absolutely not face any kind of legal sanction, it is entirely the right of the twitter community to self-police and give him a written slap. he responded to that written slap by withdrawing his comments and choosing not to cause further offence.
I'd agree...if other incidents that have got Russell Crowe into the press are considered (the throwing the phone at hotel staff in NY a few years ago being but one), it would seem that this is his modus operandi which is why I think he's a dickhead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
I have very few opinions on male circumcision.It's not as big a thing over here as it is over in the States I think. I don't know enough about the apparent health benefits. My gut reaction is that it seems a damn strange thing to do to a boy. I don't understand it. I don't particularly approve of it. I certainly don't approve of it as a religious rite. If someone can prove health benefits that's well and good, but the big man in the sky wants you to cut off a piece from a baby? That sits ill with me.
I can't say this with any kind of authority as I haven't done any recent or extensive research on it...the last thing I read on Jewish rules/customs was back in 1995 when I worked for a rabbi's wife, but it would seem if the meat/milk separation has any correlation when these rules were made (in Old Testament times) there were good health reasons for them. This is probably no longer necessarily the case which indicates the wisdom of continuing to abide by the letter of the law to the Bible is questionable.
casimendocina is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.